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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 466
Info-Atari16 Digest Wed, 4 Sep 91 Volume 91 : Issue 466
Today's Topics:
Sozobon C -- Mail?
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 91 19:22:53 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!atha!aunro!apss!ersys!mforget@arizona
.edu (Michel Forget)
Subject: Sozobon C -- Mail?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hello. I heard that there will be a new version of Sozobon C released
soon. Does anyone know the mailing address of the authors, and whether
or not they will still ship the package out to people for the $10
mentioned in their documentation for version 1.0 of Sozobon C. The
reason I am asking is that I don't have access to a Mail Server (like
Bart) or comp.binaries.atari.st (although the second one might be fixed
soon). I would like to get the newest version of Sozobon C that I can,
and if this is the only way I can, I'm game. What I need to know:
1. Do they still send out the package if you mail them the $10?
2. The Address.
3. Has the price gone up?
If anyone has any information, please let me know. Thanks for your time.
<< ---------------------------------- >>
<< ersys!mforget@nro.cs.athabascau.ca >>
<< mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca >>
<< Michel Forget >>
<< "He's dead, Jim..." - Bones >>
<< ---------------------------------- >>
------------------------------
Date: Wed Sep 4 22:27:31 GMT 1991
From: @calstatela.edu:Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
To: @calstatela.edu:Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
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Info-Atari16 Digest Wed, 4 Sep 91 Volume 91 : Issue 465
Today's Topics:
Conclusions: How do I stop Control-C?
Info-Atari16 Digest V91 #464
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 91 19:16:01 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!atha!aunro!apss!ersys!mforget@arizona
.edu (Michel Forget)
Subject: Conclusions: How do I stop Control-C?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
About a week ago, I posted a message asking how to prevent the ST from
aborting a program while waiting for input or sending output if Control-C
was pressed. I received a number of suggestions, and here are my
conclusions:
1. Use BIOS functions. Bconin & Bconout work fine to get characters and
send characters respectively. They also do not wait for the user to
press return on input, which was useful. I found that when I read from
the file, though, I had to manually convert '\n' characters into a CR,
followed by an LF for the output to the screen to look correct.
2. Use getch() and putch() to do the input and output, and use cfg_ch()
to modify the functions to use the BIOS calls mentioned above. This
would be more portable than the above method, but I think it might be a
tiny bit slower. I had problems getting this method to work for me, but
I now realize that I would have also had to convert '\n' characters into
a CR, followed by an LF for the output to the screen to look correct.
I would like to thank everyone who answered my questions to offer help.
<< ---------------------------------- >>
<< ersys!mforget@nro.cs.athabascau.ca >>
<< mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca >>
<< Michel Forget >>
<< "He's dead, Jim..." - Bones >>
<< ---------------------------------- >>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 91 14:37 CST
From: Brook Bakay <BAKAY1B@Meena.CC.URegina.CA>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V91 #464
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
You *CAN* get a PC emulator that will accept stock cards (for VGA, etc). That
emulator is the new Supercharger and I think it has a 386 in it too!!!
Brook
------------------------------
Date: Wed Sep 4 20:12:59 GMT 1991
From: @calstatela.edu:Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
To: @calstatela.edu:Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
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Info-Atari16 Digest Wed, 4 Sep 91 Volume 91 : Issue 464
Today's Topics:
frustration
Laser Printer Problems!
Little Computer People (2 msgs)
Machine Prices (was Re: ATW adon for ST's (was RE: CD-I))
MSDOS emulator with 386
MultiGEM Question!
PC Emulators- Worth the money? (2 msgs)
STE Info Wanted
Super Charger 286?
Tos 2.0x coming to an STf(m) near you...!not
Tos 2.0x coming to an STf(m) near you... NOT!
TT Unix / TT TOS (2 msgs)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 91 16:27:56 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!know!daemon@arizona.edu
Subject: frustration
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Everytime I try to back up the internal (Seagate ST157N) drive on my TT
using an ICD FA.ST 155meg tape drive, my TT crashes. I shipped the tape
drive to ICD in Rockford Illinois and ICD could not get the tape unit to
fail.
The internal drive was formatted with the TT hard disk utilities and before
doing a backup, I run the ICDBOOT.PRG code, version 5.3.0. The tape back up
software is version 2.10 beta. When I do a backup, I have TT cache off and
no desk accessories (except the CPX control panel). The tape drive is set
to ID 3.
I have tried two (2) different drive cables and five (5) different tapes.
Crashes still occur 100% of the time.
Does ANYONE have ANY idea what could be causing my system to crash?
I have had the tape drive for 6 months and just cannot use it to back up my
TT. FRUSTRATION is an understatement!!!
------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 91 15:45:05 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!uni-koeln!a0067@uunet.uu.net (Stephan B. Webanck)
Subject: Laser Printer Problems!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi there,
having too much money we bought some fancy laserprinters (not the
ATARI SLM) and now want to link them to our ATARIs.
First we got a CANON LBP-4.
This machine gives no reaction when connected to the ATARI parallel
port, but works fine when connected to any IBM clone.
Second we got a QMS PS-410. Wonderful machine with two ports and
Postscript capability.
And again we get no reaction when this QMS is connected to the ATARI
parallel port. Everything is OK when an IBM clone is used.
What is special about the ATARI parallel port?
What must be changed in the ATARI or the Laserprinters or the
connecting cable to make the ensemble work together?
Neither the parallel ports of an 1040ST, nor MEGA2 nor MEGA4
do work.
We would very much like to obtain some help or the investment
of several kDM is in vain.
Please Help
Kurt
PLEASE SEND YOUR ANSWERS VIA E-MAIL BECAUSE I HAVE NO ACCESS TO THIS
NEWSBOARD SYSTEM!!!
MY E-MAIL ADDRESS IS: stueber@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de
------------------------------
Date: 3 Sep 91 22:32:40 GMT
From: hpl-opus!hpcc05!hpcc01!wright@hplabs.hp.com (Jeff Wright)
Subject: Little Computer People
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
> I received some ST software sight unseen from a buddy of mine. Mostly
> garbage but with one interesting program. It is called "Little Computer
> People", from Activision 1985/1986 on the original disk...
> I did not receive any documention with the
> disk whatsoever. I have figured out lots of stuff through experimentation,
> but would like to get the full docs.
I have this too (my wife picked it out). I haven't looked at it in awhile,
but as I recall the docs didn't explain everything. Sort of like an
adventure game where you not only have to solve the puzzle but you have to
learn the language, too.
--Jeff Wright HP IC Business Division--Palo Alto
wright@hpctgrd.hpl.hp.com (HPtelnet/415) 857-5351
------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 91 14:44:26 GMT
From: pmafire!mica.inel.gov!lph@uunet.uu.net (Randolph Pacetti)
Subject: Little Computer People
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Does who has Little Computer People for the ST want to sell it? I've heard
some good things about it, and I think my kid (and I) would enjoy it.
---
Randy Pacetti, Engineering Specialist, AI and Information Engineering
Idaho National Engineering Laboratory, PO Box 1625, Idaho Falls, ID 83415-2090
Internet: lph@inel.gov Office: (208) 525-5442 FAX: (208) 525-5996
Randy Pacetti, Engineering Specialist, AI and Information Engineering
Idaho National Engineering Laboratory, PO Box 1625, Idaho Falls, ID 83415-1206
Internet: lph@inel.gov Office: (208) 526-0136 FAX: (208) 526-1419 FTS: 583
========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========
Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
privately owned rights. No specific reference constitutes or implies
endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States
Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory. The views and
opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 91 10:55:41 GMT
From: mcsun!corton!laas!ralph@uunet.uu.net (Ralph P. Sobek)
Subject: Machine Prices (was Re: ATW adon for ST's (was RE: CD-I))
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Aug16.172116.2704@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>
cmm1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes:
| In article <1991Aug12.203647.431@newcastle.ac.uk> D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk
(Dave Halliday) writes:
| >
| >While talking about the ATW it is now available for 2500pounds with
| >educational discount. (Thats Half price!)
|
| So what? You can go out right now and buy a 21 MIP Sun SPARCstation
| ELC for the same price in the US (about US$5,000). Wouldn't it be
| better to own a SUPPORTED workstation that runs a real unix and that
| you could do real development work on?
Have any of you been debating between getting an Atari TT or a Next
Station? It seems that the educational discount for a Next Station in
the US is approx. 3,200 $US for 8 Megs and a 100 Meg disk plus gobs of
software. Here in France a similarly configured TT/8 is in the same
ball park 20,000 FF and the educational discount is only 10%.
| p.s. That $5K figure is LIST price, not educational discount. That is
| probably even much cheaper.
The Next Station already has Unix(tm)! Unfortunately, here in France
you have to multiply the price by at least 2 in order to get a Next
Station.
Wishfully thinking...
--
Ralph P. Sobek Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own.
ralph@laas.fr Addresses are ordered by importance.
ralph@laas.uucp, or ...!uunet!laas!ralph
If all else fails, try: sobek@eclair.Berkeley.EDU
Phone: (+33-)61-33-62-66 FAX-1: (+33-)61-33-64-55 FAX-2: (+33-)61-55-35-77
===============================================================================
Got a Mega 4 ST. Wishing it was a Mega STe! :-| Do I *really* want a TT? ;
------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 91 12:14:32 GMT
From: mcsun!hp4nl!phigate!alp!johnj@uunet.uu.net (John Janssen)
Subject: MSDOS emulator with 386
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi again,
I went to the Atari Messe in Dusseldorf. After that, I had holidays,
so I was not able to contribute/read the net earlier.
I read a few article about the messe, but there is only one big thing
I would like to add:
an MSDOS emulator using the 386 processor.
Fortunaltely/Unfortunality it worked with the MEGA STE only.
They had a special "Messe" price which was 695 DM (if I remember well).
Unfortunately I did not have enough money to buy it :-(
The Printed circuit board was very well done. And it occupies a nice
empty place within the MEGA STE. No soldering required as far as I can
remember.
Beside the sockets for the 68000 and the 80386, there was another
big socket (although left open). To me it looked ok for a co-processor.
It did work with MSDOS 5.0 and could uses some partitions of harddisks
which were not being used by TOS.
As the person spoke German very well, I think they produced it there...
I do not have more information with me right now, but if there is
enough interest I will bring the information with me and post it here.
--
John Janssen Email: johnj@echo.philips.nl
The Netherlands
Work: +31 40 756588 Atari Mega STE, MIDI, C-lab Notator and Unitor.
Home: +31 77 513177 Astro -Birth/Place/Date/Time you > you.doc
--
--
John Janssen Email: johnj@echo.philips.nl
The Netherlands
------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 91 17:01:08 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!pacbell.com!pacbell!pbhya!dbsuthe@a
rizona.edu (Daniel B. Suthers)
Subject: MultiGEM Question!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <uHu071w164w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
(Michel Forget) writes:
>Hello. A friend of mine recently bought a new ST, and he discovered a
>program called MultiGEM. It was installed on his Hard Drive, so he tried
>to use it. He had a little success, in that he was able to have
>InterLink execute in the background.
[ TEXT DELETED ]
>The second question is for me, since I will consider purchasing the
>product if it is good. If you have any general information about the
>product, that would also be helpful. I hope someone can help him out
>(and me as well with the second question). Thanks for your time.
I purchased it against the advice of my local dealer, ATY computers in Oakland.
It did work on the mega2 in the shop, although only sometimes. I have not
successfully run it on my 1040STe at all.
It's a great concept, but it needs to mature a little still.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 91 07:35:23 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.ed
u!gvlf3.gvl.unisys.com!tredysvr!cellar!revpk@arizona.edu (Brian 'Rev P-K'
Siano)
Subject: PC Emulators- Worth the money?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
longj@lonex.rl.af.mil (Jeffrey K. Long) writes:
> I have been frustrated to discover that several software houses I used to
> buy from have discontinued carrying atari-st titles! I don't want to
> sell my STe, it does what I want it to with a minimum of hassles.
> But... I would like to get some of the more popular software titles, and
> since they all are for MS-DOS machines, I was considering an IBM Emulator.
>
> Does anyone have comments on the relative merits of the available ones:
> PC-Speed, Supercharger (save the breath on PC-Ditto!) and others?
> Specifically, I am wondering about ease of use, compatibility and speed.
>
> Thanks for any help you can offer!
>
> Jeff
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Capt Jeff Long Rome Laboratories, Griffiss AFB, NY
> longj@lonex.radc.af.mil (preferred) Network Design Laboratory
> jlong@cassiopeia.radc.af.mil (315)330-7751 or (DSN)587-7751
I have the software version of PC Ditto, and got burned on the
hardare version.
Basically, my main reluctance to get one of the newer hardwar
emulators like PC Speed is this: I'm still tied to the emulator for
expansions and the like. If I bought a PC clone, I could upgrade using
off-the-shelf IBM replacement parts, upgrade boards, and the like, and the
prices within the IBM community are very competitive.
However, for me to get replacement or upgrade boards for the
currently-available ST based IBM emulators, I'm stuck with getting only THEIR
boards. Those companies might be as likely to fail as Avant-Garde did, and
their rices are higher to boot.
In short, if someone marketed an IBM emulator that used real
IBM-compatible PARTS-- like a super-VGA board, 386 accelerators, hard drive
controllers and the like-- I'd get it. But as for now, I'll have to save up
to buy a real PC clone.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Brian Siano, Delaware Valley Skeptics
Rev. Philosopher-King of The First Church of the Divine Otis Redding
revpk@Cellar.UUCP "Ecrasez l'enfame!" - Voltaire
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 91 14:08:01 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!mtecv
2!tamsun!tamuts!n160ao@arizona.edu (Mark Lehmann)
Subject: PC Emulators- Worth the money?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Sep3.204051.8278@lonex.rl.af.mil> longj@lonex.rl.af.mil (Jeffrey
K. Long) writes:
>Does anyone have comments on the relative merits of the available ones:
>PC-Speed, Supercharger (save the breath on PC-Ditto!) and others?
>Specifically, I am wondering about ease of use, compatibility and speed.
I have PC-Speed and I like it fairly well. I like some other people have
never been able to use a modem under DOS with PC-Speed but that is the only
bad side effect. Another problem is that it is to fast. I purchased "Wheel
of Fortune" for my mother who has an IBM. When I tried the game on PC-Speed
I barely had a chance to enter a move before my time was up.
I have not have a compatibility problem ever. But, PC-Speed offers CGA
graphics which is sometimes difficult to use if the software hase allot of
color built into it.
The Speed in the PC-Tools "Info" Utility rates PC-Speed at "220%", an IBM PS/2
Model 25 at "80%", an IBM PS/2 Model 30 at "180%" and an NEC 80286 machine at
"285%".
------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 91 14:52:58 GMT
From: hpl-opus!hpnmdla!hpsad!randyh@hplabs.hp.com (Randy Hosler)
Subject: STE Info Wanted
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hello all,
I'm thinking about buying a 1040STE and would like to know a few
things about it.
1) Does it still have the harddisk/dma bug? I have an old 20meg
Supra drive. Will it work with the STE?
2) How hard is it to add 1meg simms? Is the memory sockected or
soldered in.
3) What's the difference between a 520STE and a 1040STE? Is the
520 missing the sockets to go to 4meg?
4) Has the workmanship improved, ei pc-board quality? My old
520ST came with all kinds of wires butched on the board.
5) Any testimonials? Are you glad you got the STE or did you wish
you would've gotten a clone?
6) Finally, I live in the SF Bay area. Any recomendations on a
dealership that will give me a good deal and *good* support?
And now for a few things I would like to sell...
Old broken 520ST. I think it might just need a new mmu socket.
I'll also throw in (away?) a non-fuctioning Aerco memory board.
This ST is a hw hackers dream come true. I will even include
schematics! Other neat options include homemade detachable
keyboard. CPU has an aluminum cover that swings off for easy
troubleshooting. TOS 1.0 and RF modulator built in.
Also included in package...
SS external disk drive. Works fine.
Atari MOUSE. Good to have for a backup.
All power supplies included.
-------------------
PRICE - $100 or b/o
STAR NX1000 RAINBOW color printer. Hardly used. Will include
driver and auto prg to do ALT/HELP screen dumps in color.
This is really not a bad little printer.
-------------------
PRICE - $125 or b/o
Thanks,
Randy Hosler
------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 91 16:59:39 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!r
jast1@arizona.edu (Robert J Anisko)
Subject: Super Charger 286?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I'm not very familiar with the "Supercharger 286", though I used to
have a Supercharger (i.e. I sold it because of the $$$ it would take
for the 286and AT slots expansion). Before you buy one, you might
wish to see how much actual IBM systems can be got for (check
mail order or used - you could find some killer prices). From what
I understand though, the 286/expansion upgrade WILL letyou use any
AT (or XT) card, thus including VGA, etc. However, unless
what I've heard is wrong (someone join in!) you could be paying
like $600-$800 for this in all (you can pick up a 16mhz 286 with
a harddrive for this much).
Justsome fair warning - I originally went with the SC because of
the expansion possibilities, but when I finally got a whiff of the
price, I said "no thanks."
I'm personally waiting for a AT-Speed16 (16mhz 286 emulator with
287 slot, does Color CGA and Tandy1000, and MONO Hercules, EGA
and VGA). It's twice as fast as the standard SC (not the 286),
and costs ina similar price range to the standard SC...
Robert Anisko
rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu
------------------------------
Date: 30 Aug 91 19:34:49 GMT
From:
europa.asd.contel.com!wlbr!lonex.rl.af.mil!blackbird.afit.af.mil!dsacg3.dsac.dl
a.mil!desc.dla.mil!wright!desire.wright.edu!cse0507@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Tos 2.0x coming to an STf(m) near you...!not
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
> Oh, c'mon, that's been Atari's #1 problem since 1984.
By your lights.
>
> The 1040 STe was released and mass produced while being full of bugs
> (bad DMA, TOS problems).
FULL of bugs? Au contraire. Full of bug fixes, maybe. No software is EVER
completely bug-free. Ask Apple.
> The Mega STe has page flipping problems and supposely many other problems.
Are you hypothesizing, or do you know of them for a fact?
> The TT/030 has problems with a monitor on top of it! There is supposely
> drive access problems, etc. The 19" monitor won't even fit on top of the
> TT/030, in fact- I doubt any monitors can be used on top of the TT!
Buzz. Wrong answer. I ran mine for two days straight w/ a 14" Seiko, no
problem. I would say it depends on the individual machines. Parts that
are only marginally within spec sound like the problem.
> The drive controller chip doesn't work with 1.44 disk drives.
True. Atari (a la Bob The Brodie) says they have the new drive chip done,
and is going to the ogre (FCC) for approval now. :-)
> I remember two years ago Atari asked the public if they wanted a 1.44 drive
> with the TT/030! The public overwhelmingly said YES! A few months ago
> Atari finds out they can't even include one.
Vague, vague, vague. "...the public..." Who? They didn't ask me. Did
they really need to ask? Doubtful.
"A few months ago..." few = ?? They can easily throw the drive in, the
controller chip that they can't get from Western Digital is the difficulty.
> The almighty Mega STe and TT/030 with a 720k drive.
800k, thank you. And a hard drive. And an Appletalk port. and and and
> I read close to 5 pages single spaced from a user on Usenet about bad
> designs of the TT/030.
Mail it to me. I'm curious what others perceive to be wrong.
> At this time last year, Atari was going to make a 16MHz TT!
> Can you believe it? They changed the speed of the microprocessor
> but nothing else on it.
Major redesigns take major time.
> Atari lost an LARGE )INCREDIBLY( LARGE market in multi-media mainly since
> not even the TT/030 can do even simple multitasking.
Buzz. Wrong answer. It does simple, cooperative multi-tasking. Run any
accessories lately? Windows 3.0 does simple?, cooperative multi-tasking.
System 7.0 does simple?, cooperative multi-tasking.
Amiga.* does pre-emptive multi-tasking. Is that what you want?
> The engineers there should have thought of it.
They have, and are, according to the the employees on the net.
> The Mega STe should have had at least 1 higher resolution (with more colors).
Opinion.
> I could go on and on and on...
Please...don't.
> The one thing I would really wish for Atari employees to do is when they
> read this, they would let someone know at Atari our concerns.
Someone at Atari? Aren't they "someone at Atari?"
> Remember- if this keeps up, you might not be working at Atari! Not because
> you aren't good, it is because Atari might not be around.
Life goes on.
> And I have no idea how you could just not care.
Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Know for a fact they don't?
>
> You can always tell a good company by its customer suggestion box.
> What customer suggestion box?
Buzz. Wrong answer. A good company has better communication then a customer
suggestion box stuffed on some inaccessible wall somewhere.
BLeh. Ack. Oop.
Bob The Schulze :-)
Darn happy with my TT, wish more games worked.
------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 91 11:30:06 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!slxsys!ibmpcug!mantis!mathew@uunet.uu.net (five minutes)
Subject: Tos 2.0x coming to an STf(m) near you... NOT!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
> (Gregory Carter) writes:
> >I wrote:
> >>As far as I'm concerned, "I want to build hardware and write software for
> >>it" if and only if "It is not based on any existing Intel processor".
> >Gosh and I thought I was the only one in the world that thought iNTEL
> >was made up of a bunch of brain dead people?
>
> Is all this macho cynicism intended to make you seem intelligent? Grow up
> and try again.
Sorry if you're offended, but every Intel processor I've seen has been a
complete pig's breakfast. Look at the 80x86 series. Even the new "flagship"
i860 has some truly awful bugs in the instruction set.
Take it to alt.religion.computers if you feel like arguing.
mathew
------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 91 14:19:06 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!corvette.utdallas.edu!helios!tamsun!tamuts!n16
0ao@arizona.edu (Mark Lehmann)
Subject: TT Unix / TT TOS
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Sep3.203934.29764@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> dav@coos.dartmouth.edu
(William David Haas) writes:
>n160ao@tamuts.tamu.edu (Mark Lehmann) writes:
>
>>It seems that most UNIX developers add a IBM emulator product that allows
>>UNIX users to access DOS on their UNIX machine. No one does a good job
>>at it.
>
>The IBM RS/6000 has a very good dos emulator. It emulates an XT at AT
>speed (or at least thats what people say). I don't use dos so I can't
>really judge the speed. It is faster than any XT I have used though.
>(And I did get Battle chess to run on it.)
I work for IBM in a Co-op job doing technical support for all IBM's AIX
products. I have used the PC Simulator on the Risc System/6000 (Tandy owns
the word "RS/6000" and gets angry if IBMers use it) and DOS Merge for AIX PS/2.
When more than 4 four are running DOS on the same machine at the same time,
the PS/2 holds up better than the RISC System/6000. Also, the PS/2 actaully
has an 8086 virtual mode which the RISC System/6000 doesn't. Since so many
DOS programmers avoid using the BIOS and program to little quirks of the
8086 chip, the PC Simulator just can't figure out what to emulator sometimes
and then fails. I would put the RISC System/6000 at third place behind
LOCUS's PC Merge product.
My point is, even if Atari makes an emulator, it isn't going to satisfy
us becuase the popular software on the ST also avoids the Operating System
calls an directly accesses the hardware in a undocumented way. That is
"taboo" in a multi-user multi-processing operating system.
Mark
tamuts.tamu.edu!n160ao
------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 91 15:43:11 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia
.edu!cunixf.cc.columbia.edu!cunixb.cc.columbia.edu!cmm1@arizona.edu
(Christopher M Mauritz)
Subject: TT Unix / TT TOS
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <3233@tamsun.TAMU.EDU> n160ao@tamuts.tamu.edu (Mark Lehmann) writes:
>In article <1991Sep3.203934.29764@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> dav@coos.dartmouth.edu
(William David Haas) writes:
>>n160ao@tamuts.tamu.edu (Mark Lehmann) writes:
>>
>>>It seems that most UNIX developers add a IBM emulator product that allows
>>>UNIX users to access DOS on their UNIX machine. No one does a good job
>>>at it.
>>
>>The IBM RS/6000 has a very good dos emulator. It emulates an XT at AT
>>speed (or at least thats what people say). I don't use dos so I can't
>>really judge the speed. It is faster than any XT I have used though.
>>(And I did get Battle chess to run on it.)
>
>I work for IBM in a Co-op job doing technical support for all IBM's AIX
>products. I have used the PC Simulator on the Risc System/6000 (Tandy owns
>the word "RS/6000" and gets angry if IBMers use it) and DOS Merge for AIX PS/2.
>When more than 4 four are running DOS on the same machine at the same time,
>the PS/2 holds up better than the RISC System/6000. Also, the PS/2 actaully
>has an 8086 virtual mode which the RISC System/6000 doesn't. Since so many
>DOS programmers avoid using the BIOS and program to little quirks of the
>8086 chip, the PC Simulator just can't figure out what to emulator sometimes
>and then fails. I would put the RISC System/6000 at third place behind
>LOCUS's PC Merge product.
>
>My point is, even if Atari makes an emulator, it isn't going to satisfy
>us becuase the popular software on the ST also avoids the Operating System
>calls an directly accesses the hardware in a undocumented way. That is
>"taboo" in a multi-user multi-processing operating system.
What about SoftPC? Doesn't this also run on Sun Workstations as well
as on the Mac? Why doesn't Atari just license a decent emulator and
charge users for it instead of just poking its head in the sand and
hoping the demand goes away (or shops somehwere else)?
BTW, has anyone actually SEEN Unix System V running on a TT and
used it? Trade shows don't count since it is easy to control what
people do to it under these circumstance to prevent any embarassing
crashes.
Also, have very many people BOUGHT these things anyway? I've seen notes
here from a few old timer/hackers from the ST community who got one,
but has the thing been selling to real people yet? Of course, there
are always going to be those fanatics for every brand of computer who
will buy the "latest and greatest" gadget just to have it, but what
about normal consumers who walk into a computer store to buy a
computer?
Cheers,
Chris
--------------+----------------------------------------------------------
Chris Mauritz | Cuba's *superior* human rights record is only part of the
| answer; it's superior social conditions are another.
--------------| -Harel Barzilai-
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
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