Amazons International #4
Topics
- Keith: psychological androgyny
- Walt K.: Deena Zarra and the Amazon Explorers Club
Keith: psychological androgyny
Date: Sun Apr 21 17:42:56 1991
From: microsoft!keithro@cs.washington.edu
Subject: psychological androgyny
The role of gender in behaviour is something I find very interesting. After a lot of thought and discussion with my feminist friends, I've come to see that almost everything that the human animal does is learned behaviour. In particular, the so-called "masculine" and "feminine" characteristics are largely defined by the culture in which one is raised.
Since I have little fondness for most of the "feminine" traits, I seek out women who dislike them as much as I do. I want to be with women who are people first. If you're interested in cars, great - fix mine while you're at it. If you want to sew, that's still OK, but do it because you like it - not because you're "supposed to".
I think that's one of the reasons I like amazons. They're people living by their own rules, doing what makes them happy without regard for society's narrow rules. "Stormwind" and Ricci both sound like the kind of people I want to spend time with - intelligent, confident and honest.
Thomas' list was interesting. I'd like to comment on it.
here are what I'd call some typical amazon characteristics:-- athletically built
I would definitely agree with athletic, but I'm not sure what you mean by "athletically built". I've known tall and short, thin and husky women who were all very athletic. Anything particular you like, Thomas?
[I guess some of my biases were shining through there. Yes, I like that women have quite a bit of muscular bulkiness. Definition is great, mass is even better. -- Thomas]
self-assertive, capable of independent decision-making and action
Yes. Beyond this, I would add "aggressive". Someone who knows what she wants and goes after it. This applies both to sex and to life as a whole. I want to spend time with equals.
a particular "heavy" or unconsciously self-confident way of walking, stressing certainty and physical strength
A self-confident, unfeigned walk - purposeful and direct. Very good. Not one that I would have thought of, but very true.
preference for "rough", practical clothing (e g sportswear, jeans, leather jackets)
For day-to-day wear, I definitely agree. Unfortunately, I still have enough "social programming" to find skirts and heels attractive, occasionally. Then again, leather jackets can be pretty sexy too.
[That reminds me... I sometimes borrow clothes from girlfriends, given that the clothes are big enough and masculine enough (I wouldn't wear "women's clothes"!). For example, once I borrowed a leather jacket, and then I had her smell all around me (wow!), and I found a piece of chocolate in one of the pockets! The femininity chasers don't know what they're missing! I also like to see a lover/girlfriend wearing my clothes. -- Thomas]
a "strong" face, vivid eyes (hard to be specific here, but it's the opposite of the kind of detached, passive, away-from-this-world-looking expression that one can find in some artworks that are considered to express femininity). Having a "defined" angular face helps.
Animated intelligence. I expect this of all my friends. Bumps on your chest are no excuse for not having opinions and expressing them in your speech and your manner.
her looks is not the most important part of her self-concept (even if she is photo-model beautiful)
True. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and, in my experience, women with the rest of these characteristics, are beautiful.
no or little make-up/fake-up
Again, true. This has been beaten into the dirt many times before on Usenet.
no false behavior (deceptions, manipulations, game-playing etc.)
Again, I expect this of all my friends.
Walt Keith: Deena Zarra and the Amazon Explorers Club
From: Walt K.
Subject: Deena Zarra and the Amazon Explorers Club
[Note from moderator: This is an excerpt from two letters I've received from Walt K. that I forward with his permission.]
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Here's my impression and opinion of Ms. Deena Zarra (based on meeting her in May 1988) --
She is a very accomplished, amateur wrestler, undefeated by male (I believe) or female (for certain) opponents. She has a very pleasant personality and is really a *nice* woman. I am a member of her 'Amazon Explorers' club; the major benefit of which is a 10% discount on *anything* (private matches, videos, etc) offered by Deena.
A vicious attack on her appeared in a reader-letter to 'Cavalier' magazine recently. The letter's author was unimpressed with the skill-level of some of the female wrestlers available for private matches in the club. The claim was that they are interested only in fetish B&D stuff. He did mention that Deena is the only one who will wrestle 'for real'. I can not comment on the other women, but Deena is definitely capable. A private match with her is a bit costly, at approximately $200 (10% discountable) but she says it's for an hour, I was there for more like 2.5 hours. She gave me a few lessons (she respects a man who is secure enough to admit he is less than proficient), she remembered that on my membership survey I noted that lifting and strength were of interest to me, so she showed me that a 6' 3'', 210lb woman can consider a 5'11'', 220lb man to be essentially weightless.
After this, we talked a bit about upstate NY (she has family in Utica, NY), I took a shower, talked some more and thoroughly enjoyed myself. If opportunity presents itself, and you'd like to meet a very well trained/conditioned woman for a legitimate (*or* fetishy) wrestling match, Deena is one h*ll of a nice person. Oh, physically she's 6'3'', 210 (or so) lbs, dark hair and eyes, very attractive with a very pleasant personality. If she's married, her husband is one lucky dog!
Regarding 'Amazon Explorers Club' -- I joined several years ago, (I was like member #20 or so) life membership was then (may have increased) $110, includes the club newsletter and the 10% discount on everything. Information can be obtained either by writing:
Deena Zarra
P.O. Box 651
New York City, 10011
or phone: (212) 807-6252 (she has a very nice voice, too)
The particular events leading to my private match (others may be different) -- I was in NYC on business in May of 1988, had been an AEC member well prior to that. Called Deena and spoke briefly to her answer machine. She called me back a couple hours later and we spoke for a while, during which she told me she normally wishes to pre-arrange private matches with a little more lead-time but since I was an AEC member and she remembered (!) my member-profile on the questionnaire she'd meet me. It felt a bit like a 'spy-novel' -- '... go to this particular phonebooth and call a given number; await instructions ...'.
Her apartment is (approximately) in midtown Manhattan and that's where she holds her private matches, takes her photo-set photos and (presumably) films her videos. We talked a bit, she provided me a pair of shorts, we wrestled (well, I received wrestling lessons, actually), she demonstrated some lifts (of me, mostly), we talked, I showered, we looked through some of her photosets (one of which she was lifting in various ways a 200lb man). I commented that she looked bored, like the guy was too light; she replied that he was and she was bored. She's a professional stuntwoman (licensed, or whatever), a nurse (comes in handy; she told me most men can't admit that they are less than skilled in combat and one made the mistake of hitting her with a cheap-shot in desperation, she messed him up and he needed nursing) and also turned down a contract with 'GLOW'. She didn't like the image presented on the program. She follows collegiate wrestling rules with the exception of she uses headscissors submissions. I can go on and on; but I'll stop for now....
Walt K.
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Amazons International: thomasg@ulrik.uio.no
Thomas Gramstad, moderator
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"A Hard Woman is Good to Find" -- The Valkyries
