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Cider Digest #0006

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Published in 
Cider Digest
 · 9 Apr 2024

Subject: Cider Digest #6 Fri Aug 16 18:00:08 EDT 1991 
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 18:00:10 EDT
From: (Are you SURE you want to send it HERE?)

Cider Digest #6 Fri Aug 16 18:00:08 EDT 1991
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Jay Hersh, Digest Coordinator

Ted's Post (hersh)
Re: Aerating to remove SO2 (bob)
Cider Digest #5 Fri Aug 16 11:00:06 EDT 1991 (Greg Kushmerek)
grape crusher for apples (Larry McCaig)
Champagne Yeast (Eric Pepke)
variants for balance (Chip Hitchcock)
RE: California apples... (RUBICON READY)
Unreadable digest mailings (dbell)

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Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 11:49:49 EDT
Subject: Ted's Post

Kudos to Ted S for a very informative piece, comments as follows...

>If you wanted to go the kit route, my local homebrewing store, the Modern
>Brewer (in Cambridge, MA,

What do you mean your local homebrewing store.., it's *MY* local homebrewing
store :-)....

>(Note that the Carlson Orchard's wife is my wife
>Diana's second cousin; how's that for further coincidence?)

Starting to sound like serious inbreeding to me :-) :-)....

> Buckwheat and goldenrod honey overpower the cider."
They also overpower fruit meads :-(

>If molasses is used, the entire barrel of cider ... will
>taste powerfully of sorghum.....
>Remember that Papazians "Complete Joy of Home Brewing" points out that
>brown sugar is white sugar with molasses added.

I have used small amounts (1-2 cups) of brown sugar with no bad effect.
I wonder where the sorghum taste would come from (and what does sorghum taste
like anyway??) I suspect that this may not be "modern info" but perhaps more in
the way of traditional lore. Any comments Ted or anyone else??

I'll try to remember to find my notes from Paul Correnty's cider talk at the
AHA conference (Paul was really enthused to hear I'd created this Digest :-).
I'll dig out my recipe book and post any recorder cider recipes I can find in
it and any notes to go along with them.

- JaH


Date: Fri Aug 16 12:12:04 1991
From: semantic!
Subject: Re: Aerating to remove SO2

> Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1991 10:03:22 EDT
> From: gatech!!eci386! (David King)
> > Date: Wed Aug 14 17:33:49 1991
> > From: semantic!
> >
> > I have to date only made one batch of Hard Cider. This was really a Cyser
> > with two pounds of honey added to one gallon of cider. I am pretty happy
> > with the ferment using the Red Star Champagne yeast. I used sulphites to
> > sterilize the must, but however I added some after the ferment and thus it
> > has a nasty aroma. This was a test batch and was ment to learn from,
> > as I now have.
> If you haven't tossed the stuff out try aerating it as you rack it.
> ie: put the output end of your siphon at the top of your carboy and
> let the cider run down the side or splash to the bottom. You want to
> disturb the cider so the sulpher dioxide can escape. Oxidation shouldn't
> be a problem as sulpher dioxide is also an effective antioxidant.
> I'd leave it in the carboy with an airlock on it and rack it a few times
> over several weeks. That should improve things.

Thanks for the advice Dave! I haven't tossed it, but it is bottled.
I think your absolutley right that aerating will allow the SO2 to
escape. I first noticed this affect when finishing a half emptied
bottle which had spent a few weeks in the back of my fridge. Basicly
I had tried the first part of the bottle but couldn't finish the rest
andI stuck it away until a braver day. The second half had significantly
better aroma, less sulphur.

My current plan is to taste a bottle every few months to see how it
ages. (I beleive the flavor should improve due to the honey used).
When pooring I'll heavily aerate and stick the second half away again
to let it air out as before.

Thanks again.

- ---

So does anyone wish to take a stab at this one?

> How high does a Starting Gravity have to be to have a fairly sweet
> resulting Hard Cider: if using champagne yeast?; if using ale yeast?
> (Say with Red Star Champagne and Whitbread Ale yeast)

-- Bob Gorman Jake had a vision. It was his, --
-- the only real one he'd ever had, --
-- uunet!semantic!bob and he clung to it. ... --


Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 13:49:22 -0400
From: (Greg Kushmerek)
Subject: Cider Digest #5 Fri Aug 16 11:00:06 EDT 1991

I was reading a source that says the apples used for cider should have no
bruises on them or else it could make the batch go wrong.

The guys at the Anderson Fruit Farm say that they use exactly those kinds
of apples to make their cider (can't sell the bruised ones I guess). Is
there really a problem with this?

And thanks to Ted Stefanik for that piece he submitted.

- --gk


Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 14:35:12 EDT
From: (Larry McCaig)
Subject: grape crusher for apples

> Frome Andy Leith
> I can borrow a grape crusher, the question is will this be suitable for
> crushing apples, and how many pounds of apples does it take to make a gallon

I have been brewing for over 20 years, and wine for the past 10. Being a
member of the Massachusetts Wine Co-op who owns a stemmer crusher, I would
have to say that this device is not suitable for crushing apples.

If you are speaking of the same device, it is a motorized cylinder into which
you dump the grapes directly from the lugs they come in. It removes the stems
from the grapes and shoots them out of the center of the cylinder into a waste
container, then gently crushes the grapes which fall into a container placed
below the machine. The juice is pressed at a later point, the time being
determined by color, tannin, etc which comes from the skin.


Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1991 14:40:20 EDT
From: (Eric Pepke)
Subject: Champagne Yeast

In my experience, Red Star California Champagne yeast makes a nice slightly
sweet cider. Red Star Pasteur Champagne Yeast results in a much drier result.
The CC yeast is a bit harder to find, though.

Eric Pepke INTERNET:
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute MFENET: pepke@fsu
Florida State University SPAN: scri::pepke
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052 BITNET: pepke@fsu

Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.


Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 14:42:19 EDT
From: (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: variants for balance

At the WBUR-benefit tasting last night I looked at the ingredients of
ciders and talked to one of the people involved. A Vermont brand (very
slightly fizzy) made sweet hard cider by filtering out the yeast from
fully-fermented juice and adding ~10% (my guess from the stated alchohol
content) fresh juice; has anyone tried this? The Strongbow label listed
fermented apple juice and carbonated water among the ingredients; has
anyone tried carbonating a strong finished batch by mixing with plain
seltzer, or by pressurizing a keg? What were the results?


Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 14:23:33 -0700
Subject: RE: California apples...

<My wife Catherine and I are beginner brewers, with 8 ale or lager batches
<and one mead batch under our belts (literally). Neither of us has
<(intentionally) made hard cider before.
<So we're here to learn more about brewing cider, and to make a batch or
<two this fall. Finding good raw apple juice could be tricky: I was born
<in Cortland, NY, and it just makes me weep here in California to remember
<the orchards in the fall. What's a "Gravenstein?" Is that like a low-rent
<<From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <>
<Subject: California apples.
<To the gentleman in California who pines for the Courtlands,
<I know what you're missing. Last year I had a bushel or two of the finest
<organically grown Courtland apples ... marvelous! Now that I have rubbed
<salt into the wound, let me try to be of some help. There are two
<varieties of apples that may be fuond in Southern California that make
<marvelous juice and, I think, fine hard cider. They are the Stayman


If any of you are near Sacramento California, your only about a half hour
away from some incredible apples in "APPLE HILL", just outside of Placerville.

There are a number of ranches, with some variety. There are 20-30 large and
small orchards, and all are in a touristy kind of cooperative. Most all sell
apples and cider.

I discussed what I was doing with the owner of one orchard, and she gave me
recipes and advice. She thought it was real neat brewing the stuff. She even
gave me a half gallon of extra cider so I'd have something to drink while
I was brewing!

I'll get my bike out and take a ride up there and see if anyones open yet.
If so, I'll get the map and literature on the area, and find out the varieties.

It's real nice up there, cause a lot of places sell apple sauce and preserves
and pies and all kinds of goodies. It's a neat place to take the family for
a fun fall afternoon!



Date: Fri, 16 Aug 91 14:46:17 PDT
Subject: Unreadable digest mailings

Help! Three issues in a row, I have been unable to read the
digests! Our mail system is not 'rn', so the user interface is
different, but I've never had this problem with email from
any other source... My CS was able to recover the first two,
and I've just told him about the latest, but I really can't
expect manual intervention twice a day, forever! Is there
*anything* odd about the way you're sending the digests?
(By the way, I've been getting the Homebrew Digest OK for years)



End of Cider Digest

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