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Cider Digest #1074

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Cider Digest
 · 9 Apr 2024

Subject: Cider Digest #1074, 10 September 2003

Cider Digest #1074 10 September 2003

Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor

Etymology Question: Perry (and Cider) ("Michael L. Hall")
Re: freezing part of the apples before milling and pressing (Claude Jolicoeur)
Re: Cider Digest #1073, 9 September 2003 (Steury & Noel)
Re: Cider Digest #1073, 9 September 2003 (Steury & Noel)
Re: wood finishes and glues (Dick Dunn)
Finishes and glues (Tim Bray)
re:finishes and glues ("squeeze")
Cidermaker Survey (
wood finishes and glues; orchard pests ("James W Luedtke")
Cider Competition ("")
Cider Stability/Aging ("")

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Subject: Etymology Question: Perry (and Cider)
From: "Michael L. Hall" <>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:46:06 -0600

"McGonegal, Charles" <> writes:
> I'm wondering what the source of the word 'perry' is. I thought it was
> pretty direct from Anglo-Saxon, but I've seen another attribution recently.
> Charles
> AEppelTreow Winery

Some of the strange characters don't come through, but here it is:


(pr) Forms: 4 pereye, ? piri, 5 peirrie, pirre, 5-6 perre, pirrey,
6 perie, pirrie, 6-7 pery(e, perrie, 7 perrey, pyrrey, -ie, piry,
6- perry. [ME. pereye, a. OF. pere (13-16th c.), perey (14th c. in
Godef.):late L. type *prtum, f. late L. pra = L. pirum pear.]

A beverage resembling cider, made from the juice of pears
expressed and fermented.

c1315 SHOREHAM Poems i. 205 Ine wine me ne may, Inne siere,
ne inne pereye [rime reneye]. 1362 LANGL. P. Pl. A. v. 134 Peni
Ale and piriwhit heo pourede to-gedere. c1440 Promp. Parv. 394/1
Perre, drynke, piretum. c1480 HENRYSON Test. Cres. 441 Tak mowlit
breid, peirrie, and ceder sour. 1483 Cath. Angl. 281/2 Pirrey
(Pirre), piretum. 1577 HARRISON England II. vi. (1877) I. 161 A
kind of drinke made..of peares is named pirrie. 1577-87 HOLINSHED
Chron. III. 1197/1 Botes laden with wine, cider, perrie. 1623
LISLE ?lfric on O. & N. Test. Ded. xxxiv, Syd'r in Kent,..Pyrrie in
Wostersheere. 1693 EVELYN De la Quint. Compl. Gard. I. 117 The great
Pear plantations, planted for the making of Perry in those places
where Vines cannot prosper. 1765 BLACKSTONE Comm. I. viii. 319 first laid upon..the makers and venders of beer, ale,
cyder, and perry. 1840 Cottager's Man. 5 in Libr. U. Kn., Husb. III,
Cider, perry, wines..might easily be obtained by an additional
half acre.

b. attrib. and Comb. as perry farmer, perry pear.

1836 Penny Cycl. V. 250 The cider and perry farmer will feel the
benefit of this. 1896 Jrnl. R. Horticult. Soc. Nov. 208 One of our
oldest perry pears, the Longland, equals the well-known Catillac
for stewing.

- -----

While I'm at it...


(sad(r)) Forms: . 4 sidir, sidre, sidur, sydir, sydur, sydyr, cidre,
4-7 sider, 5 sidere, cedyr, 5-8 syder, 6 sydre, cydar, 6-7 sydar,
6-9 cyder, 7 cidar, (cidyer), 6- cider. . 4 sier, syere, sither(e,
sithir, cither, cyther, 4-5 syther. [ME. sidre, sier, etc., a. OF.
sidre (now cidre), corresp. to It. sidro, cidro; Sp. sidra fem.,
OSp. sizra. Although the phonetic history of the word in Romanic
presents difficulties, there can be no doubt that it represents late
L. sicera (med.L. cisara, cisera), Gr. , a word used by the LXX, the
Vulgate, and Christian writers to translate Heb. shkr intoxicating
liquor, `strong drink', of the O.T., f. shkar to drink deeply or
to intoxication. It is not clear where or how the phonetic change
from sicera to sidra took place; but perh. the intermediate link
was sizra (sitsra, sidzra): cf. F. ladre from Lazarus. In common
use cidre had already acquired the sense of `fermented drink made
from apples' before it was taken into English. But the earlier
sense of `strong drink' generally was retained in translation of,
and allusions to, the Vulgate; and in this sense the word had often
forms much nearer to the Latin, as ciser, cisar, cyser, seser:
these forms are not used in the sense `cider': see SICER.]

1. a. A beverage made from the juice of apples expressed and
fermented. Formerly
including fermented drinks prepared from some other fruits.

c1315 SHOREHAM 8 Inne sithere, ne inne pereye. 1398 TREVISA
Barth. De P.R. XIX, liii. (1495) 894 Hony cometh of floures,
sidre of frute, and ale of corne. c1440 Promp. Parv. 64 Cedyr
drynke, cisera. 1464 Mann. & Househ. Exp. 184 He hathe even me a
tone of syder. 1576 FOXE A. & M. I. 260/1 This ague he [K. John]
also eating Peaches and drinking of new Ciser, or as
we call it Sider. a1626 BACON New Atl. 5 A kind of Sider made of a
Fruit of that country. 1663 BOYLE Usefulness Exper. Philos. II. 175
'Tis known, that Sydar, Perry, and other Juyces of Fruits,
will afford such a spirit. 1708 J. PHILIPS Cyder 11, My mill Now
grinds choice apples and the British vats O'erflow with generous
cider. 1714 Fr. Bk. of Rates 36 Beer, Syder, or Perry, per Ton
01 06. 1767 T. HUTCHINSON Hist. Prov. Mass. i. 57 A barrel full
of cyder. 1848 MACAULAY Hist. Eng. I. 614 Hogsheads of their best
cyder. 1875 JEVONS Money (1878) 6 The farm labourer may partially
receive payment in cider.

b. Formerly used in Biblical passages, or allusions to them,
alongside of ciser, cisar, cyser, etc., to render L. sicera of the
Vulgate `strong drink'. Obs. (See SICER.)

a1300 Cursor M. 12679 (Cott.) is iacob..Iesu broer..he dranc
neuer cisar [v.r. ciser, sider, cidre] ne wine. 1382 WYCLIF
Judg. xiii. 4 Be war thanne, lest thou drynke wyn and sither [1388
sydur]. Ibid. Prov. xxxi. 6 iueth cither [1388 sidur] to mornende
men. Ibid. Luke i. 15 He schal not drynke wyn and sydir [v.r. cyser,
cyther; 1388 sidir]. 1483 CAXTON G. de la Tour Liijb, He shold drync
no wyn ne no maner of syther. 1497 BP. ALCOCK Mons Perf. Ej3 Saynt
John Baptyst, which ete neuer flesshe, dranke no wyne nor cydre.

2. attrib. and Comb., as cider-apple, -barrel, -bibber, -counties,
- -country, -fruit, -maker, -making, -orchard, -tree; cider-and
(colloq.), `cider mixed with spirits or some other ingredient'
(Davies) (? obs.); cider brandy, a kind of brandy distilled from
cider; cider cart U.S. (see quot.); cider-cellar, a cellar in which
cider is stored; name of a drinking-shop and place of entertainment
in Maiden-lane, London; cider-cup, a beverage consisting of
cider sweetened and iced, with various flavouring ingredients;
cider-house, a building in which cider is made; cider-man, one who
makes or sells cider; cider-marc [see MARC], the refuse pulp, etc.,
left after pressing apples for cider;
cider-master, a manufacturer of cider; cider-mill, a mill in
which apples are crushed for making cider; cider oil U.S., cider
that has been concentrated by boiling or freezing; concentrated
cider with infusion of honey; cider press, a press in which the
juice of the crushed apples is expressed for cider; cider-pressings
n. pl., the pulp, etc., left after expressing the juice for cider;
cider royal U.S. = cider oil; cider vinegar, a vinegar produced by
the acetification of cider; cider-wring = cider-press.

1742 FIELDING J. Andrews I. xvi, They had a pot of *cyder-and
at the fire. Ibid., Smoaking their pipes over some Cyder-and.

1875 URE Dict. Arts I. 1019 The best situations for the growth of
the *cyder apple.

1841-4 EMERSON Ess. Poet. Wks. (Bohn) I. 160 The *cider-barrel,
the log-cabin.

1866 MISS THACKERAY Vill. Cliff xvi, The old *cider-bibbers at

1703 J. MORE Eng. Interest (ed. 2) ii. ?6. 27 The most Stale
and Sowr Cyder..will make tasted Brandy, being twice
Distill'd. Of this *Cyder-Brandy I have kept some, four Years. 1723
J. NOTT Cook's & Confect. Dict. No. 141 C To make Cider Brandy,
or Spirits. 1845 S. JUDD Margaret I. vii. 42 Distilleries for the
manufacture of cider-brandy. 1859 BARTLETT Dict. Amer. (ed. 2),
Apple Brandy, a liquor distilled from fermented apple-juice; also
called Cider Brandy.

1877 Southern Hist. Soc. Papers III. 17 The passage of a *cider-cart
(a barrel on wheels) was a rare and exciting occurrence.

1823 Blackw. Mag. XIII. 514 At *cider-cellar hours, when that famed
potation-shop was in its days of glory.

1855 MACAULAY Hist. Eng. xxiv, The lucrative see of Worcester was
vacant; and some powerful Whigs of the *cider country wished to
obtain it for John Hall.

1851 London at Table III. 51 *Cider Cup,..cider..soda
water..sherry..brandy..lemon..sugar and nutmeg. 1876 BESANT &
RICE Gold. Butterfly xliii. 328 He drank some cider-cup.

1669 WORLIDGE Syst. Agric. (1681) 111 There cannot be an
over-stocking of the Country with them, especially of *Syder-fruits.

1848 MACAULAY Hist. Eng. (1889) I. iii. 166 Worcester, the queen
of the *cider land.

1671 H. STUBBE Reply 17 From his own *Cider-maker.

1664 EVELYN Kal. Hort. (1729) 216 September..*Cider-making continues.

1706 Lond. Gaz. No. 4287/4 Richard Peake, late of London, *Cyderman.

1675 EVELYN Terra (1776) 63 [A] bed of *Cyder-marc, rotten fruit
and garden offal.

1664 Pomona Gen. Advt. (1729) 94 Care is taken by discreet

1688 Lond. Gaz. No. 2374/4 Mr. George Brown *Sider-Merchant at the
*Sider-Mill in High Holborn.

1846 H. H. BRACKENRIDGE Mod. Chivalry (rev. ed.) I. xxiii. 115 She
ordered him a pint tumbler of *cider oil, with powdered ginger,
to warm his stomach. 1859 BARTLETT Dict. Amer. (ed. 2), Cider Oil,
cider concentrated by boiling, to which honey is subsequently added.

1879 *cider-orchard [see QUEENING n.].

1673 in Essex Inst. Hist. Coll. L. 28 In the Little chamber a great
Tray a trough a *syder presse. 1676 BEAL in Phil. Trans. XI. 584 The
Cider-mill, or Cider-press invented by Mr. Hook. 1879 R. J. BURDETTE
Hawk-Eyes 70 The sound of the cider press ceased not from morning
even unto the night.

1664 EVELYN Kal. Hort. (1729) 225 Sow..Pomace of *Cider-Pressings
to raise Nurseries.

1684, 1707 *Cider royal [see ROYAL a. 15b]. 1828 T. FLINT
Geogr. Mississippi Valley I. 235 What is called `cider royal' or
cider, that has been strengthened by boiling, or freezing. 1837
A. WETMORE Gaz. Missouri 290 The disturber known in..Pennsylvania
[as].. `cider royal', and by the Indians appropriately named

1530 PALSGR. 270 *Sydre tree, pommier.

1851 C. CIST Cincinnati 251 But there is a good deal of
*cider vinegar made. 1858 SIMMONDS Dict. Trade, Cider-vinegar,
vinegar made in Devonshire and America from refuse cider. 1917
Jrnl. Chem. Soc. CXII. I. 313 The volatile reducing substances
in cider vinegar consist largely, if not wholly, of acetylmethyl
carbinol, which is shown to be a normal constituent of this
vinegar. 1937 Discovery Sept. 280/1 In the cider-drinking West
Country much cider vinegar is found.

- ----


- -Mike

Michael L. Hall, Ph.D. <>
President, Los Alamos Atom Mashers <>
President, BJCP Board of Directors (Mtn/NW Rep) <>
Member, AHA Board of Advisors <>

It's hot, we are thirsty, and we want our beer.
- -- Demand from a Chicago Jury as it went on strike in July, 1911


Subject: Re: freezing part of the apples before milling and pressing
From: Claude Jolicoeur <>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 23:34:28 -0400

"Ira Edwards" <> wrote:
>I know that last month we discussed ice ciders and such but i have a
>slightly different question. I had the opportunity to pick some mystery
>apples at this elderly gentleman's home the other day. They are yellow,
>about 2.5" long 1.5-2" wide and kind of egg shaped. they taste very similar
>to yellow transparent apples, but are smaller and are ripe much earlier.
>the guy said that his grandmother planted the tree here in the early 1920's.
>would it be horrible to freeze these apples until I process them? with this
>small of a fraction of the pressing, would it gunk everything up that much?
>am I better to just try and make applesauce out of thes apples?

I have done it with early apples like Yellow Transparent: freeze them in a
freezer, take them out about a day before pressing, and press WITHOUT
milling. If you mill them, you will make a mess, but slowly pressing whole
apples works quite well, and the yield is actually increased.
Claude, in Quebec.


Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1073, 9 September 2003
From: Steury & Noel <>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:19:48 -0700

regarding etymology of perry, from OED:

[OE. pire, pirie, pirie, pyrie, wk. fem., of obscure formation, taken by
Pogatscher to represent a late L. type *pirea, *prea (sc. arbor tree), from
a late L. adj. *pire-us, *pre-us, f. pirum, Rom. pra pear. (But no trace of
such adj. has been found in L. or Rom.)
The historical series pirie, pirie, perie, perrie, *perry, is exactly
parallel to that of mirie, mirie, merie, merrie, merry, the i in both
becoming e before r, which again was doubled after the short vowel.]

A pear-tree; sometimes distinctively the wild pear-tree. Also attrib.
937 in Birch Cart. Sax. II. 429 anon..up on stream..midde weardne up on a
pyrian. 972 Ibid. III. 586 And~lang dic on a pyrian of ?re pyrian on one
longan apuldre. c1000 ?LFRIC Gloss. in Wr.-W?lcker 137/37 Pirus, pirie.
Gram. vii. (Z.) 20 H?c pirus eos pyrie, hoc pirum seo peru. 13.. Seuyn Sag
(W.) 555 A fair gardin,..Ful of appel tres, and als of pirie; Foules songe
therinne murie. 1362 LANGL. P. Pl. A. v. 16 Piries and Plomtres weore
passchet to e grounde. c1386 CHAUCER Merch. T. 937 Thus I lete hym sitte vp
on the pyrie [v. rr. purye, pyrye, Pyry, pirry, pire, pirie]. 1398 TREVISA
Barth. De P.R. XVII. ii. (Tollem. MS.), As whan a pery is graffid on an
appeltre. a1425 Cursor M. 37 (Trin.) Of good pire com gode perus. 14.. Voc.
in Wr.-W?lcker 603/11 Piretum, anglice Pereye. 1577 B. GOOGE Heresbach's
Husb. (1586) 87b, You may graffe the Apple upon the Perrey, the Hawthorne,
Plome tree, Servisse tree,..Poplar, Willowe and Peare. 1578 LYTE Dodoens
VI. xxxi. 697 High as a Perrie, or wilde Peare tree. 1601 HOLLAND Pliny I.
474 There be some Pyrries and Apple trees that bring forth fruit twice a

attrib. 14.. Songs & Carols xxxi. (Warton Cl.), To gryffyn here a gryf of
myn pery tre. 1523 FITZHERB. Husb. ?137 A pere or a wardeyn wold be graffed
in a pyrre stock. 1586 W. WEBBE Eng. Poetrie (Arb.) 76 Now Melibe ingraft
pearie stocks, sette vines in an order. 1603 STOW Surv. 48 That he should
buy certaine perie plants.

Diane Noel, Tim Steury, and David Steury
1021 McBride Road
Potlatch, ID 83855 USA


Subject: Re: Cider Digest #1073, 9 September 2003
From: Steury & Noel <>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:24:32 -0700

re: wood finishes for presses

I was NOT impressed with the epoxy that HVR was distributing for a while.
Although it was fine for the body of the press, it peeled off the grinder
after the first year. Mineral oil is the best treatment by far, as far as
I'm concerned.

Tim Steury

Diane Noel, Tim Steury, and David Steury
1021 McBride Road
Potlatch, ID 83855 USA


Subject: Re: wood finishes and glues
From: (Dick Dunn)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:38:01 -0600 (MDT)

There was (at least!) one thinko in my note in CD 1073--I said:
>...Titebond II, which is a PVA. Would a PVC glue like Gorilla Glue be OK?

Gorilla Glue is polyurethane, not PVC. I know better, honest I do!
Speaking of that, I'm working on replacing the grinder cylinder in my
HVR press...I'm making it of white oak glued up with Gorilla Glue. So
I've already placed my bet on glue safety, that it should be OK...although
as I said, there is almost negligible glue surface exposed compared to the



Subject: Finishes and glues
From: Tim Bray <>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 23:29:05 -0700


>I have heard it said that essentially all conventional finishes (varnish,
>lacquer, oils, waxes) are food-safe once they've dried and hardened

True. See:

>(Boiled linseed oil is a notable exception: It is known NOT to
>be food-safe.)

Where did you hear that?
Linseed oil has one big advantage, as I see it: It penetrates into the
wood, rather than forming a surface film, so it doesn't flake or
chip. Second big advantage is that it is easily renewed. It is true that
it contains certain metals as drying agents, but these are in such small
concentrations as to be negligible once the finish has cured in the wood.

Its chief drawbacks are that it takes a very long time to fully cure
(probably a month), and it provides very little moisture protection. This
is both good and bad: it means moisture can get into the wood, but it also
means it can get back out again. One disadvantage to film-building
finishes is that they can trap moisture inside the wood.

> Rather, the difference between typical finishes and the
>food-safe "toy" or "salad bowl" finishes is not that the latter are somehow
>different or safer, but that they have been tested and certified safe--a
>process which could be expensive and a headache for the manufacturer.


>One tangle comes to mind about finishes: "Food safe" might need to be
>interpreted carefully in the context of use on a press where there is
>extended contact with rather low pH liquid. Comment?

I wouldn't recommend _any_ finish, actually - the conditions are so adverse
that you're better off using a rot-resistant wood, like white
oak. (Barrels aren't finished on the inside - why worry about your press?)

If you feel you must use a finish, go with epoxy. It is by far the most
chemical-resistant and moisture-resistant finish, virtually inert and
immune to acids or bases.

>I've seen a suggestion to use mineral oil...which would certainly be food-
>safe, but it doesn't "dry" and it seems it could be messy.

Waste of time and money.

>I've seen a suggestion to use vegetable oil...which is a **terrible** idea
>because the oil will turn rancid before long and you'll never get that out
>of the wood.


>I've not seen any specific notes about epoxy, although I know there are
>epoxies used in food-contact situations. My concern (relative to Mark's
>specific question) would be that epoxies are generally quite hard and go
>on thick, so you might want to think about chipping/flaking of the finish
>into the cider. (How does epoxy--or any finish material, for that matter--
>behave when soaked for an extended period at pH of 3.5 or so, followed by
>long soaking in 7% ethanol?!?)

A good two-part epoxy, properly mixed and applied, is going to be pretty
resistant to any kind of chemical attack. Malic acid isn't very corrosive
- - we drink it, after all! - and 7% alcohol isn't a particularly strong
solvent. Epoxy is used in chemical applications where it is exposed to far
harsher environments.

Polyurethane finishes are also going to be pretty inert in that
environment, but they probably won't hold up as well as epoxy. Moisture
will get behind the finish, though small cracks or pinholes, and either
cause the wood to mildew or cause the finish to peel. Or both.

>Similar questions arise about glues, and again the matter of "food safety"
>arises: Is it a matter of actual safety or the certification process?
>The only waterproof wood glue that's actually certified for food contact
>that I know of is Titebond II, which is a PVA. Would a PVC glue like
>Gorilla Glue be OK?

I'd use it. The stuff is impervious to water, and non-reactive when
cured. (It's not PVC, it's polyurethane.)

> Barring anything explicitly toxic in the formulation,
>I'd think glue couldn't be much of a problem, since the exposed surface of
>any glue joints present a trivially small surface area compared to finished
>wood surfaces.

Exactly. And the amount of material you could leach off those surfaces is
extremely small, so the glue is literally the least of your worries, from a
toxicity standpoint. The phenols in the wood itself are probably more
toxic than anything you'd get from the finish or the glue. (Recall that
wood has antiseptic properties... that means it's toxic to a certain degree!)

The 7% alcohol in the finished cider is probably more toxic than whatever
might leach out of a finish you put on your press. Not to mention the
hundreds of other organic compounds present in cider, many of which
undoubtedly are toxic in large enough quantities. Remember, "the dose
makes the poison." (What do you suppose causes hangovers?)

The whole issue of "food-safe finishes" is a hoax, in my opinion - a type
of modern myth, like the cat in the microwave. Misplaced concern. But
that's just my opinion... FWIW. I come at this from two different
perspectives: 17 years of professional consulting in hazardous materials
management and environmental engineering, and 3 years of professional
furniture building.

Albion, CA


Subject: re:finishes and glues
From: "squeeze" <>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:45:13 -0700

after 20 years of small scale juice pressing, my 2c is that the only really
functional surfaces for juice contact are stainless steel, HMD
polypropelene and fiberglas, w/ wax being a functional coating for wood
surfaces that come into contact w/ the apples. press racks are easily
made of HMD polyprop sheets, grooved 1/2 thru in opposite directions each
side. oil of any kind will get eroded iinto the juice over time. in
cases like the grinder drum being wood, it's most likely a hardwood [oak]
that isn't absorbant, so shouldn't be a problem w/ no finish - same for the
"staves" of a basket style press. as for glues, I can't imagine any glue
standing up to the particular acidity of apple juice over long periods.
the only type of paint that will survive for extended periods is the 2 part
epoxy finishes that are meant for metal.

don't be fooled by the term "food safe" w/ regard to the acidity of apples,
particularly the varieties most desireable for cider making - the
"authorities" who invented that concept think all apples are as low acid
as modern table apples. make sure your equipment is of appropriate
materials to start and don't worry about finishes!!

Bill <>


Subject: Cidermaker Survey
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:34:15 -0400

Hello Folks-

I am in the midst of researching a thesis topic related to a crucial aspect of
quality cider production. I would be extremely grateful to hear from any
interested parties on the subjects of:

1. Gauging apple maturity (by objective or subjective methods).
2. Storage practices ('sweating' or otherwise).
3. Determination of the optimal time for juice extraction.

I have found only brief guidelines for these processes in the cider
literature, most comprehensively from Ben Watson and Andrew Lea: Harvest when
optimally mature, "use immediately" (Copas) or store under cover for a few
days to a few weeks (depending upon cultivar), firmly pressing with thumb to
determine when apples are ready to mill...

The focus of my research is on the 'classic' cider apples of England such as
Kingston Black, Dabinett, Stoke Red, and the like, but any and all
observations or suggestions would be most welcome.

Jonathan Carr
MS Candidate
University of Massachusetts, Amherst


Subject: wood finishes and glues; orchard pests
From: "James W Luedtke" <>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:14:55 -0500

I made my wooden apple grinder and press about 20 years ago. The grinder
cylinder is laminated ash, with an epoxy finish. As I recall, the epoxy
was from a fiberglassing kit. Other parts received Watco Danish Oil.
None of the parts are exposed to moisture for extended periods. Both the
epoxy and Danish Oil finishes have held up well, with no visible
loosening or flaking of the epoxy.

These finishes were purported to be non-toxic once fully cured. Since
the juice remains in contact with the press parts for a relatively short
period, and since this is for personal use only, their reputation of
non-toxicity is, at this point anyway, sufficient for me.

In my (tiny) orchard, I've had problems with various pests this year.
Deer: a two-wire electric fence seems to be sufficient to keep a doe
and 2 fawns from turning my cider trees into bonsai. Crows: I've caught
them a number of times in late summer in the apple trees, knocking down
fruit, and pecking holes in hanging fruit. Wasps and Hornets: These
guys just love that the crows break through the tough apple skin - the
wasps can hollow out an apple in just a few days. Codling Moths: With 8
weeks of high temps and no rain, the moths are just itching to propagate
an extra generation or two.

Fun, eh?

Jim Luedtke


Subject: Cider Competition
From: "" <>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:09:49 -0700

Hi Drew: I saw your letter in the Cider Digest requesting entries for
the North American Cider Competition. I gathered from your letter that
this competition is only for commercial producers. Have you considered
having an amateur competition also? It is from the ranks of amateur
cider makers that the commercial producers of tomorrow will arise.
Today, there is not to my knowledge a good North American cider
competition for amateurs, only bits and pieces thru various groups like
the AHA (American Homebrewers Association) and Winemaker magazine.
Regards, Giles.
- --
Dr. Giles M. Marion
Earth and Ecosystem Sciences
Desert Research Institute 775-673-7349 (phone)
2215 Raggio Parkway 775-673-7485 (fax)
Reno, NV 89512


Subject: Cider Stability/Aging
From: "" <>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:20:18 -0700

Robert: I have keep high alcohol ciders like NE style for years with
only very slow deterioration. I think your problem may be that there
was some bug in your cider at bottling. You might try adding 1/4 tsp.
of metabisulfite at bottling to control these problems and stabilize the
cider. Regards, Giles.

- --
Dr. Giles M. Marion
Earth and Ecosystem Sciences
Desert Research Institute 775-673-7349 (phone)
2215 Raggio Parkway 775-673-7485 (fax)
Reno, NV 89512


End of Cider Digest #1074

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