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Cider Digest #1870

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Published in 
Cider Digest
 · 9 Apr 2024

Subject: Cider Digest #1870, 27 April 2014 

Cider Digest #1870 27 April 2014

Cider and Perry Discussion Forum

Making cider from "garden" apples (Andrew Leighton)
Visit to the UK--Cidery/Orchard (and Ale/Pub and Whisky/Distillery) Rec (K...)
Golden Russet and Frequin rouge (Claude Jolicoeur)
Re: CiderCon/ Chicago (Andy Crown Brennan)

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Subject: Making cider from "garden" apples
From: Andrew Leighton <>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 18:53:12 +0100

Hi there,

I'm a subscriber from England and have an orchard of eight trees (so,
very small scale!). I have planted two Dabinett bittersweet cider apple
trees but will need to wait a few seasons before they're bearing decent
quantities of fruit. I'm trying to create a vintage cider taste but
being stuck with having to use Bramleys and various dessert apples, it's
tricky. I've used oak chips, and wild apples but the taste still comes out
"thin". I'm only making a still, dry cider at the moment.

Any tips for producing a good cider taste using non-cider apple varieties
would be appreciated.


Andrew Leighton


Subject: Visit to the UK--Cidery/Orchard (and Ale/Pub and Whisky/Distillery) Rec
From: Kintigh Family <>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 15:24:57 -0400

Greetings fellow ciderphiles,

I am very much anticipating a long-planned 3 week visit to the UK this
June. A central goal of this trip is to improve my understanding of the
finer points of British culture, specifically the libatious
points.....traditional English cider, real ale, and whisk(e)y. I intend to
achieve this noblest of goals through friendly conversation, meticulous
observation, and of course, copious sampling. Ideally, I will have the
opportunity to visit a few small-scale cideries so as to glean practices
and approaches that may be applicable to my own modest cider orchard. I
also aim to visit a distillery or two, hopefully one of the few that still
operates its own malt house. In terms of my itinerary, I will be spending
several days in London, four days at Radstock in Somerset (between Bath and
Wells), a few days near York, and a week at Killin in Stirling
(south-central Scotland). I will have the means to day trip from these
locations. I have the Somerset Cider Map (James Crowden & Somerset County
Council) and also plan to stop at the Cider Museum in Hereford on my way to
York. Furthermore, I have spent a fair amount of time perusing various
scotch whisky sites and the CAMRA website, all the while maintaining an
applicable list of distilleries and real ale pubs.

Well as you can imagine, the number of choices is absolutely overwhelming. I
am desperately seeking assistance narrowing my options. Would the members
of this digest be willing to dispense advice and recommendations related to
their specific cidery/orchard experiences, particularly in the Somerset and
Herefordshire regions? And though it is off topic for the digest, I would
also welcome advice on real ale pubs in the London, Somerset, and Yorkshire
regions and distilleries in central Scotland.


Keith Kintigh

Bellaire, Michigan


Subject: Golden Russet and Frequin rouge
From: Claude Jolicoeur <>
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 23:41:50 -0400

In Cider Digest #1869, 25 April 2014
>Subject: Re: Golden Russet
>From: John Bunker <>
>By the late 19th century, the russets were already mixed up. By
>then, most or all the russets in Maine and most locations were known
>only as "russets". As was noted in earlier emails, the same names
>were regularly applied to multiple varieties. The fruits of all them
>are similar enough in appearance to make them quite difficult to tell

And, unfortunately, Golden Russet is far from being the only apple in
this case!
I was looking looking some time ago at a French cider apple named
Frequin rouge. Apart from an undisclosed number of different apples
that bear this name by itself, there are some other Frequin that have
"Frequin rouge" as a synonym.
And in addition, there are the following distinct and recorded
varieties: Frequin rouge petit, Frequin rouge gros, Frequin rouge
doux, Frequin rouge de la Guerche, Frequin rouge de Domfront... In
the Bore and Fleckinger book (Pommier a cidre - varietes de France),
in the appendix, I counted over 40 varieties that had the word
Frequin in their name...

In North America, there is a Frequin rouge that is being propagated.
Now, go figure which one it is! Is it the true Frequin rouge now
considered as the standard one and an important variety in France, or
one of numerous apples that have Frequin rouge within their name, or
another one that was send here under a synonym name? Who knows?


Subject: Re: CiderCon/ Chicago
From: Andy Crown Brennan <>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 10:14:11 -0400

Thinking about the location for a national cider conference (by any name)
has me wondering about the primary goal of such event. Is CiderCon
inseparable from the duties of the US Cider Association? No doubt there is
a need for both, but I should think a national conference needs to
represent the mass of producers, tradesmen, suppliers and enthusiasts first
and without direction from the Association. The Association is in service
to these people so naturally they need to follow. Anyway, just wondering
if that's how done, maybe it already is??

As for Dick's point, I agree it's only a matter of time before a winter
storm exposes the risk of keeping an important annual meeting in Chicago in
February. But I also think it's not wise to exclude the opportunity of
finding more members/ participants for the Association and Conference.
That's what I'm hoping this thread explores.

- -Andy
- --
Aaron Burr Cider
Hudson Valley/ Catskills NY
Facebook <> ,


End of Cider Digest #1870

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