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HOMEBREW Digest #0507

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 · 13 Apr 2024

This file received at Mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU  90/10/01 03:15:43 

HOMEBREW Digest #507 Mon 01 October 1990

Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

re: Getting the Trub Out! (Todd Enders - WD0BCI )
Request for Information. [R(11)] (A1C Karl Wolff)
Request for Information [R(12)] (A1C Karl Wolff)
Tubing for Kegging System (!!ncr-sd!ncrcae!ncrmud!ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM!brew)
Hunter Energy Monitor (!!ncr-sd!ncrcae!ncrmud!ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM!brew)
re: Cider Questions ("MISVX1::HABERMAND")
Request for Information [R(13)] (A1C Karl Wolff)
Trouble with Trub (Martin A. Lodahl)
Slugs and Beer... Abstract (Steve Anthony)
Cider Questions (Arun Welch)
hops&yeast (Russ Gelinas)
Temperature controlled fermentations ("Andy Wilcox")
Ballentine IPA cap puzzle no. 66 (gateh)
Carbon Dioxide... ("Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503 28-Sep-1990 1755")
TV Ontario Homebrew course (Paul Bigelow)
Thanks for the help (Drew Lawson)
Kolsch (Norm Hardy)
Interop Attendees, where to relax? (Tim Dennison )
Cider experience (Ken Johnson)
Where is the news going ? (cass System Administrator)
Mark Stevens' _The Beer Stack_ ("a.e.mossberg")
HyperCard stack about beer and brewing (GARY 30-Sep-1990 1841)

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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 09:23:28 -0500
From: Todd Enders - WD0BCI <>
Subject: re: Getting the Trub Out!

In the last installment of homebrew digest, Ken Weiss describes his
difficulties in ridding his wort of trub:

>I then placed the brewpot in a bath of ice water. I gave it a strong stir
>to create a whirlpool and put the lid on the pot to prevent contamination.
>Every 10 minutes or so I spun the pot around a little, to help the process
>of heat transfer. In 40 minutes the wort in the pot was around 100 degrees.
>When I took the lid off the pot, lo and behold, there was a cloudy mess in the
>center of the pot, and crystal clear wort around the edge. I filled my siphon
>hose with water, stuck one end in the brewpot, and the other in my primary,
>and began siphoning. That's when trouble started. The siphon just sucked
>in all the trub along with the wort. The trub was a very fine textured
>stuff, and mixed with the clear wort *very* easily. I didn't see any big
>flakes of material, just a cloud.
>I still managed to leave some of the trub behind, and more will be left
>in the dust on Friday, when I rack to the secondary, but it seems like
>this didn't work the way it was supposed to. What's wrong here? Is it
>my technique or my expectations?

Most likley techinque. The cooler you chill your wort, the better the
cold break. At the least, you should be down to fermentation temp before you
syphon out of the brewpot. In my experience, the trub always seems to be
quite finely divided. I have heard/read that Irish Moss will make for
better flocculation, but I have never tried it. What I usually do is what
Miller suggests in TCHOHB, namely syphoning into the primary as soon as the
wort is cooled to fermentation temp, pitching the yeast, allowing 4-8 hours
for the trub to settle, then racking to another primary (or a holding
bucket), leaving the trub behind.

I usually end up with 1/2" to 3/4" of trub in the bottom of the primary
after about 4 hours settling time. The trub isn't supposed to have it's
undesired effects until after the yeast passes into its anerobic phase, so
pitching the yeast as soon as you are down to fermentation temp is a good
thing from the standpoint of lessening the risk of infection.

Todd Enders ARPA:
Computer Center UUCP: ...!uunet!plains!enders
Minot State University or: ...!hplabs!hp-lsd!plains!enders
Minot, ND 58701 Bitnet: enders@plains


Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 09:50:11 CDT
From: A1C Karl Wolff <>
Subject: Request for Information. [R(11)]

I have a couple of questions regarding getting started with
homebrewing. I am interested in starting my own brewing at
home, however since I have not yet done any homebrewing, I
need help.

Can somebody please send me some inforation on how to get
started, and possibly a few simple recipes just to get
me started in the wonderful world of homebrewing.

I also need to know where I can obtain the materials needed
to do any homebrewing. I need a source in the Montgomery Al
area. Please help a hopeful homebrewer in getting started.

Karl R. Wolff Jr.


Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 09:54:02 CDT
From: A1C Karl Wolff <>
Subject: Request for Information [R(12)]

I need assistance in getting started. If anyone can send me
information regarding a source of supply for homebrew materials
in the Montgomery Alabama area, it would be greatly appreciated.

I also would appreciate any pointers that can be given to me
as far as what ingredients work best. I would also like a
couple of recipes to help me get started. Thanks for the help.

Karl R. Wolff Jr.


Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 11:21:31 EDT
From: hplabs!!!ncr-sd!ncrcae!ncrmud!ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM!brew
Subject: Tubing for Kegging System

I am trying to put together a kegging system and need some
advice on tubing to use to connect the CO2 to the keg and
keg to the faucet. Looking through a Superior Products catalog,
they offer a clear and a blue transparent 5/16" gas vinyl tubing,
but they don't indicate rated pressure. I know that storage and
dispensing pressure will in most cases be less that 15 psi, but
what about artificial carbonation where I might want to run the
pressure up to 70 psi? Will this tubing withstand the pressure?

I have seen soda tubing that has a braided reinforcing, sort of
like reinforced garden hose. I am not sure where to find this tubing
in small quanities.

Jim Griggers * * * * *
brew@ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM * * I've got a cat on me
408 Timber Ridge Dr. * * and I can't get up!
West Columbia, SC * * *
29169 * *


Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 11:00:00 EDT
From: hplabs!!!ncr-sd!ncrcae!ncrmud!ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM!brew
Subject: Hunter Energy Monitor

Last week I stumbled across and bought a Hunter Energy Monitor at
Sears Surplus store. Sears regular price was $49.95, I got it for
$30. The only other place I have seen them near Columbia is at
Builders Square in Augusta, GA for $34.95.

Jim Griggers * * * * *
brew@ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM * * I've got a cat on me
408 Timber Ridge Dr. * * and I can't get up!
West Columbia, SC * * *
29169 * *


Date: 28 Sep 90 09:32:00 PDT
Subject: re: Cider Questions

>Please indulge a fellow homebrewer for a non-beer related fermentation

OK, I'll indulge...

>I started a five gallon batch of cider on Monday using 5 gals of cider from
>the store( hey, it's an experiment!) and a packet of Montrachet wine yeast. I
>had a huge head built up by Tuesday afternoon, spewing out the lock like
>crazy. I removed the lock, attached a blowoff, and waited for the head to
>drop off, the replaced the lock yesterday. I still have *active*
>fermentation, But.....
>I notice a strong sulfury odor when I open the door to the brewfridge. Do I
>have an infection happening, or is there some strange DMSO or DSM thing with
>cider that I am not aware of? Mind you, I'm not worrying, just a bit
>concerned. Luckily, I still have a third of a keg left, so I'm relaxed....

Just keep relaxing and not worrying. A friend of mine, and fellow reader of
the digest, brought me 2 gallons of fresh cider from Tehachapi, CA last year.
I put them both in the fridge and we started to drink one. A few days later I
noticed a brown foam on top that looked an awful lot like yeast fermenting. I
smelled it and decided to put an airlock on it to let it finish. When it
stopped fermenting, I drank some and got a nasty sulphery smell and taste. I
decided to let it sit for a while, and about a month later the smell and taste
went away. The jugs were plastic so I put the cap on after the visible
fermentation was over. It then carbonated in the jug. I racked it off the
yeast trub on the bottom and put it into Grolsch bottles. The other gallon
has never been opened and just swelled a little. It will be a year old this
month and I plan on opening it. (Are you ready Bruce?) The taste is like a
dry white wine with a little hint of apples. If you like it sweeter, then
rack it off the yeast and stop the fermentation with campden tablets to
sterilize it. You can also mix it with a small amount of fresh cider to give
it a little more apple flavor and sweetness. I was surprised that it
fermented in the refridgerator. Apples have natural yeast in them and my
cider book says not to add any.

On another note: I like Norm Hardy's report on Germany. It is informative,
short, and tells us how to make the same beer at home.

Greg Troxel asks about strange flavors with beer. I have noticed that some
beers, especialy stouts, do not go well with pizza. Michael Jackson uses his
beer like wine and serves different beers with different food. I think the
problm with the jalepenos is that you have 2 strong flavors clashing with each
other. Also, black patent malt has a burnt coffee charcoal like flavor and
seems to used sometimes in the wrong beers



Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 12:13:55 CDT
From: A1C Karl Wolff <>
Subject: Request for Information [R(13)]

I am in need of some assistance. I would like to begin in the
wonderful world of homebrewing, however, I don't know where to

If somebody could give me some information on where to purchase
the materials needed, in the Montgomery Alabama area, it would
be greatly appreciated.

I am also in need of some step by step instructions as well as
ingredients list (recipe's) to get me started. Any assistance
I receive will be greatly appreciated.

Karl R. Wolff Jr.


Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 10:43:22 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah@PacBell.COM>
Subject: Trouble with Trub

Ken Weiss experimented with trub removal, and ...

> In 40 minutes the wort in the pot was around 100 degrees.
> ... there was a cloudy mess in the
> center of the pot, and crystal clear wort around the edge.

Not a bad sign ...

> ... That's when trouble started. The siphon just sucked
> in all the trub along with the wort. The trub was a very fine textured
> stuff, and mixed with the clear wort *very* easily. I didn't see any big
> flakes of material, just a cloud.

That's why I usually chill to a point where the critters become
comatose, and let it settle overnight before racking and pitching.
The finer flakes seem just barely more dense than the wort, and take
a long time to settle. After cooling/chilling, I transfer the
wort back into the (sanitized) lauter tun, let the loose leaf hops
settle to the bottom, and then drain the wort out into the boiler,
which strains out the hops and some of the trub, and establishes a
pretty fair filter bed of spent hops. Ladleing the wort gently
through this filter again will remove yet more trub, but not all.
At this point I usually end up with wort that's less than crystalline.
In about 10 minutes, the bottom 8" or so is cloudy, the remainder
clear. The cloudy region becomes smaller and denser until it's
settled into a solid layer an inch or two deep, in about 4 to 6

I've read accounts of apparently instantaneous trub separations, and
I'm puzzled, since my experience has alway's been much like Ken's.
In one batch, I had a large, more-or-less bell-shaped trub cloud in
the middle of the boiler after chilling, and tried to rack around
it, but discovered that I could only recover about a gallon or so of
wort without getting cloudy matter as well. It was my son (then 8)
who suggested using the lauter tun & spent hops as a filter -- that
kid amazes me, at times.

= Martin A. Lodahl Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff =
= malodah@pbmoss.Pacbell.COM Sacramento, CA 916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! 8-) =


Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 15:40:21 EDT
From: Steve Anthony <steveo@Think.COM>
Subject: Slugs and Beer... Abstract

Science marches onward....


Whitney S Cransaw
Department of Entomology
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, COlorado 80523

ABSTRACT: A series of field trials were conducted to determine the
attractiveness of various malt beverages and fermentation products to
Deroceras species garden slugs. Among 12 tested American beers, a 3-fold
range in attractiveness was measured, based on trap captures. Alcohol was
not involved in attractiveness to slugs as highest captures were effected
with Kingsbury Malt Beverage, a non-alcoholic malt beverage. Furthermore,
alcoholic fortification of 48-hr flattened beers had variable, and
occasionally negative, effects on slug captures. Sugar water/yeast
combinations showed substantial attractiveness to slugs with mixtures
involving larger yeast > baking yeast > ale yeast, water check. The
addition of surface active compounds did not increase slug capture in sugar
water/yeast baited traps. A brewery waste product (malted grain fiber)
also showed attractiveness to garden slugs, with increased attractiveness
following amendment with sucrose and active yeasts.

Some notes:

The surface active compounds the abstract talks about (also known as
"surfactants") were Ivory Dishwashing detergent and also a wetting agent,
Aqua-gro. As far as I know, no slug tests have been performed with the
surfactant used in Gillette foamy, nonoxynol-9.

Gallo Pink Chablis was tested and was not attractive to slugs, but
unfermented grape juice was.

Among the beers tested are Rainer, Strohs, Schaefer, Bud, Bud Light, Pabst
Blue Ribbon, Coors, Coors Light, Miller, Michelob, Kingsbury Malt Beverage.
The testing methodology was impecabble: each test trial tested 4 beers in
randomized locations in a 4 block slug trap, scattered in numerous
locations throughout a "heavily vegetated yard". One of the beers was
always Bud, and results are expressed in ratio form relative to the Bud

P.S. If for some reason you need to reach the author, here is how to reach

Whitney Cranshaw
Asst. Professor of Entomology
E115 Anatomy - Zoology
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
(303) 491-6781


Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 15:21:15 -0400
From: Arun Welch <>
Subject: Cider Questions

Did you boil the cider? I generally boil mine for 3-5 minutes before
pitching the yeast (this is pure cider, right, with *no* additives?).

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arun Welch
Lisp Systems Programmer, Lab for AI Research, Ohio State University


Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 15:28 EST
From: <> (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: hops&yeast

Hey, isn't it about time for the new line of fresh hops from Freshops? Have
they harvested yet, or am I over-anxious?

Also, does Wyeast sell retail directly to brewers, or just to homebrew


Russ G.


Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 16:49:14 EDT
From: "Andy Wilcox" <>
Subject: Temperature controlled fermentations

Finally, that old freezer in the garage is hooked up to a Hunter
energy monitor (Thanks, Pete!!!).

Living in Florida, this is nearly an unimaginable plus, as I doubt
I've ever fermented a beer at less than 90F!

So, my question is a simple one: what temperatures do various yeasts
prefer? For example, I like to use the Wyeast german ale yeast, my
own cultures of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale yeast, and the occasional
packet of M&F. Of course, other recommendations are welcome! I'd like
to do my first pilsner soon. Recipies?



Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 16:52:41 EDT
Subject: Ballentine IPA cap puzzle no. 66

I know this topic is a little dated (not to mention utterly peripheral), but
I didn't manage to remember until today to get the one of the many puzzle
caps from Ballentine's IPA which no one I know has ever been able to solve
to everyone's satisfaction. If I ever needed the help of the nets, it's now.

It is puzzle number 66, and the pictures, as best can be translated into
words, appear to be:

First word: a sheep saying "Baaa..." + "'b" (?)

Second word: K + what looks like a necklace (a lei) + 2000 lbs (a ton)

Bob Klayton? Who is Bob Klayton?

The only things up for grab are the "'b", which is the real stumper - this
is the one thing that no one ever agrees upon. Some say a whale with a
spout, some say a key.... I'm just about ready to put in a request with the
school's electron microscope for this pic. The other is the lei, but this
I'm pretty sure about because they use the same pic in another puzzle, and
it's lei. Also in another puzzle they use a lowercase letter in much the
same style as the mystery object in this puzzle, so that's why I say it's a
"b". My thought on the whole thing (actually the rationalization which
allows me to sleep) is that it's an inside joke by the puzzlemakers.

The number of the people-hours which have been spent scrutinizing this cap,
under the broadest of physical and mental conditions, with all investigative
tools and methods available, borders on the absurd. I'm not sure exactly
what fruits would fall upon the individual or individuals who can shed some
light on IPA cap 66, but at a bare minimum I will offer the very finest
level of hospitality I can muster if said person or persons should ever find
themselves in my neck of the woods. My one concern is that this post will
fail to bring forth the solution, and will instead succeed only in spreading
the condition clinically know as "cap 66 angst" to more unwitting souls.

Cheers (!?) - Gregg

Gregg TeHennepe | Academic Computing Services | Yes, but this
gateh@conncoll.bitnet | Connecticut College, New London, CT | one goes to 11...

ps - I think I have an extra copy or two of this cap. I'll even send one of
the damn things to any brave soul who wants a look at one...


Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 15:02:33 PDT
From: "Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503 28-Sep-1990 1755" <>
Subject: Carbon Dioxide...

I have just found my first problem with kegging - I hope it's stupidity, and
not generic. I went downstairs for a HB, and discovered that the tank was
empty. Now that might not be unusual, but it is a 10# tank, and it has done
1/2 of a keg so far! I must have introduced a leak when carrying it between
the house and the meeting the other night. There was no obvious leak, which
makes me wonder what the normal precautions are. I will be changing to a five
keg manifold and quick disconnect fittings while the tank is empty. Is there a
way to help leakage problems when using hose clamps on plastic tubing? Is
there a substitute for that method?


P.S. Anyone know of a CO2 supplier in the Nashua, NH area?


Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 18:53:50 EDT
From: Paul Bigelow <>
Subject: TV Ontario Homebrew course

For Ontario digest readers:
TV Ontario is offering a three part Home Studies course on Homebrew.

"The three half-hour programs are hosted by Charlie Papazian...
Topics covered include: basic ingredients, equipment, and the start-to-finish
process of beer making. Papazian makes a couple of his favorite brews,
one from a kit, and another from scratch. Viewers will also meet the
brew master of a popular brew club in Toronto, who offers a tour of
his plant; as well as a brew master of a an up-coming young brewing

Lots of times to choose from:
Saturdays 11:30 am starting Oct 13
Sundays 12:30 pm starting Oct 14
Saturdays 11:30 am starting Dec 1
Sundays 12:30 pm starting Dec 2
Wednesdays 7:30 am starting Dec 5
Mondays 4:30 pm starting Dec 17

Paul Bigelow


Date: Sat, 29 Sep 90 10:20:46 -0400
From: (Drew Lawson)
Subject: Thanks for the help

I would like to thank everyone for the quick responses to my post.
In particular, I would like to thank Chris Shenton for his supplier
list (you can never have too many catalogs) and Chuck Coronella for
forwarding Algis R Korzonas's "first batch" posting. That put a lot
of pieces in the correct sequence.

Just so that everyone know that I have been set straight, I now know
that Foxx deals mainly with kegging, and I am not likely to keg.
(I wouldn't be able to keep it where I want the beer.). I also will
look into locating copies of:
The Complete Joy of Home Brewing, by Charlie Papazian
The Complete Handbook of Homebrewing, by David Miller
Brewing Quality Beers, by Byron Burch

I figure I will locate a starter kit (even if it is plastic ;-) and
upgrade one part at a time as time goes by. But that is subject to
change after I start browsing through catalogs.

| Is life an illusion? | Drew Lawson |
| Or does it just seem that way? | |


Date: Sat, 29 Sep 90 10:33:01 PDT
From: polstra!norm@uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Kolsch

A question from Jay on how long to cold condition a Kolsch.

When I toured the Rhenania Alt brewery in Krefeld, they made a point of
saying (in German of course) that they age (or lager actually) their beer
near 0c or 32f for about 4 weeks to a month.

For a homebrewer the only concern would be the viability of the yeast for
bottling (if not kegging w/ CO2). From experience, I have never had a
problem with carbonation given enough time, but sometimes I have to be

Norm Hardy


Date: Sat, 29 Sep 90 15:54:48 EDT
From: (Tim Dennison )
Subject: Interop Attendees, where to relax?

At the risk of being flamed:-) (Please flame me directly if you must)

I have not read my digest in about 2 weeks so this may have been discussed.

I suspect that some among us will be in San Jose for Interop '90 the
week of Oct 8th through the 12th. Can anyone suggest some interesting
places to visit. Obviously, I hope they have to do with beer, or even

If this has been covered SORRY. If not, well I hope it helps more than


Tim Dennison
LAN Administrator
SUNY Institute of Technology
Utica, NY 13504


Date: Sat, 29 Sep 90 15:02:10 PDT
From: (Ken Johnson)
Subject: Cider experience

About two months ago I tried my hand at making cider. I bought a gallon of
apple cider from Safeway, took it home, added some Red Star champagne yeast,
attached an airlock, and waited. It fermented slowly for about two week with
the temperature being about 65. Then there was no sign of futher yeast activity
but the cider was still very cloudy. I stuck the bottle in the fridge for
two or three weeks, and it cleared up a little bit. I bottled it and let it
sit for a couple weeks. The cider came out dry, bone dry. It puts a martini
to shame. There is no real apple flavor left. It disappointed me after
trying the Blackthorn cider at a local pub. Oh well, next time I'll try using
a different type of yeast and see what that does.



Date: Sat, 29 Sep 1990 08:10:15 -0400
From: hplabs!ames!gatech!bnr-vpa!cass! (cass System Administrator)
Subject: Where is the news going ?

Where does the news go once bounces from our machine ?


Date: Sun, 30 Sep 90 18:16:17 -0400
From: "a.e.mossberg" <>
Subject: Mark Stevens' _The Beer Stack_

Gary Mason has provided to the homebrew archive the Hypercard stack
_The Beer Stack_ by Mark Stevens. It is available from the homebrew
archive as beerstax.sit.hqx-part[1-9]

The homebrew archive is available via ftp as
or via the netlib server (

send the message


to for information on using the server, or
the message

send index from homebrew

for the current index for the homebrew archive.



Date: Sun, 30 Sep 90 15:52:27 PDT
From: GARY 30-Sep-1990 1841 <>
Subject: HyperCard stack about beer and brewing

Thanks to Andrew Mossberg, we now have the Macintosh Hypercard stack on beer
and brewing in the archives. He apparently told you how to access it - I will
now tell you what's in it.

There are actually three stacks - Beer Stax, beer tastes, and breweries. The
first is the master, and accesses the latter two on request. The main menu
leads to facts about beer and brewing, brand ratings, brand comparisons, and US
brewery facts. Ratings are always subjective, so take them accordingly. All in
all, it is a pretty interesting set of stacks, and as always, you can add your
own information as you wish (if you register it - $7 shareware). Have fun!



End of HOMEBREW Digest #507, 10/01/90

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