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HOMEBREW Digest #3442
HOMEBREW Digest #3442 Sat 30 September 2000
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY:
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Contents:
Session Beers, Publicity Campaigns, & Evap Rates (Christopher Farley)
The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
Yeast Culture Questions... (Ant Hayes)
Dr. Smith - Yeast culturing questions ("pksmith_morin")
yeast plates ("Graham Sanders")
Homebrew Publicity Campaign (Dan Listermann)
Out of the closet ??? ("Peter J. Calinski")
Frozen keg woes and fridge problems (Carmen Salvatore)
Little Shop of Hops in NYC (John Cooper)
session beer (Vachom)
Upside Down Plates ("Paul Niebergall")
Protecting us from ourselves... (macher)
HBD and AHA (Alan McKay)
Re: Beer defects (Spencer W Thomas)
mash hopping (mike karnowski)
censorship (Jim Liddil)
pumpking ale advice? ("Jensen, Craig")
Miracles & culturing ("Glen Pannicke")
Yeast culturing ("Alan Meeker")
AHA Sponsorship ("Paul Gatza")
Hacker-Pschorr ("Jeff Beinhaur")
RE: covered boils ("Brian Lundeen")
SoFB I and III ("Jim Busch")
Re: mash hopping clarification (Marc Sedam)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:25:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christopher Farley <chris@northernbrewer.com>
Subject: Session Beers, Publicity Campaigns, & Evap Rates
> From: Doug Hurst <DougH@theshowdept.com>
> Subject: Session Beer
>
> Could someone please enlighten me as to the meaning of "Session" as in the
> phrase "... makes a good session beer"?
sess'ion beer, n. (orig: England) A good beer for consumption during a
long session of drinking. This usually refers to English beers of about SG
1035-1040.
> And secondly, is there anyone who has any information about the Homebrew
> Publicity Campaign that was organized by the late Brewing Techniques people?
> I sent email to the listed address but it was returned undeliverable. I
> know that BT is gone but the web site states the following:
As I understand, the Homebrew Publicity Campaign's lasting achievement was
the production of a 30-second long commercial that homebrew shops could
air on television. It was a reasonably well-done ad, and I would have
considered using it were it not for the unfortunate sound of a woman's
voice cooing with pleasure (a very unusual amount of pleasure) after a
glass of homemade wine was poured. The devil is in the details...
You might want to try contacting F.H. Steinbart; I think someone there was
involved.
> From: Al Korzonas
>
> Actually, I'm surprised that anyone would suggest a gentle boil or to
> keep the lid on during the boil. Both are great ways to increase
> dimethyl sulphide (DMS), which lends a cooked corn aroma, in your
> finished beer. Professional texts are quite clear on this and I have
> references if you really don't believe me, but the Reader's Digest
> version is this:
[snipped]
I asked Dave Miller about this once because I was concerned that I could
be getting DMS due to my not-so-powerful stove. His only question to me
was 'What is your total evaporation rate?' When I told him it was about
20% over 90 minutes, he quite definitively stated that my boiling
practices were not an issue. (Anything over 10% evaporation was good, I
believe.)
Is an evaporation-rate rule too simplistic?
- ----
Christopher Farley
Northern Brewer / 1150 Grand Avenue / St. Paul, MN 55105
www.northernbrewer.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:31:41 -0500
From: "Rob Moline" <brewer@isunet.net>
Subject: The Jethro Gump Report
The Jethro Gump Report
So much to say.....
ProMash..
The only brewing software I use...or recommend.. to my mates .....
AHA Sponsor of HBD..
As a brewer, I was delighted when the AHA took the helm of the HBD, way
back when it was needed...
And disgusted when they 'screwed the pooch' and dropped the ball....
As a brewer, I felt that this was a natural marriage between the arts,
science, and net....."Who else?"
Obviously, someone......the AHA couldn't carry the ball...
Now...as a member of the Board of AHA, when questions of sponsorship
evolve, I go back...when it was recommended that the AHA sponsor the HBD....
@ that time, it couldn't be done...not for a lack of desire.....
Now, it is again needed...and many of the Board have recommended that the
AHA indeed sponsor the HBD.....I agree....
But, I put it further.....
The AHA should be the natural home of the HBD......carrying all the
costs......
With the leadership of folks like Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen maanaging the
effort....why would one care where it lives? After all, the address is just
a few digits...and financial support. I think we could do that.
And with the new structure of the AHA/AOB.....and the current strata of the
Board....I believe that the AHA is now ready to embrace the HBD.....
After all, it remains a natural marriage....of the arts, science, and the
net.
I believe it should be done....
Cheers!
Jethro Gump
"The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About
Beer!"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:24:40 +0200
From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes@FifthQuadrant.co.za>
Subject: Yeast Culture Questions...
Dr Smith asked some questions regarding culturing yeast. Be warned that the
answers come from someone who dropped biology in the equivalent of the 9th
Grade.
1. "culturing plates upside down?" - I don't bother leaving the plates
upside down. But I do seal the edges with electrician's tape. Glass on glass
makes a poor seal, and fur can develop on the outside of the plate quite
quickly.
2. "Do any of you get break material in your plates?" - Yes - they don't
look pretty - but are functional.
3. "what do you use for a flame source?" - I use a methylated spirits burner
from a fondue set. No soot but certainly enough heat. A mate of mine uses a
plumber's blow torch - which works very well.
My contribution to our club's yeast handling was the use of in-flight jam
jars. (They are the ones about 30 mm high with a similar diameter) I prefer
them to plates as they are small, seal and can be boiled. I mix a little
DME; water and agar in each jar, seal and then put them in boiling water for
20 minutes. Once cool, you have a relatively sterile container which can be
easily stored until you need to streak your yeast. I store my backup yeasts
in these jars, tucked away in the back of the fridge. Because they are
sealed, the agar does not dry out as quickly.
Ant Hayes
Gauteng; South Africa
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 04:49:06 -0500
From: "pksmith_morin" <pksmith_morin@email.msn.com>
Subject: Dr. Smith - Yeast culturing questions
Dr. Smith brings up some good points about yeast culturing.
Short of a sterile hood, in my experience it is difficult to ensure plates are
not contaminated by sampling or transfer error-microbes. Especially in the
summer, when, as in the brewery, nasties swirl and swim about the atmosphere
with clear abandon. One thing you can do is keep everything within the
perimeter of the flame heat "hood," the theory being that everything
underneath this "hood" is protected due to the fact heat rises - arguably
carrying with it nasties (away from your work). "Arguably" because
cross-currents may penetrate this hood anyway, especially with a low energy
source, such as an alcohol lamp. I have found a propane torch to be much
better.
Secondly, you can bathe the entire area in alcohol mist. USE 70% ALCOHOL,
preferably ethanol, NOT 90%. For alcohol to work (without flaming microbial
critters to death, as in a 90% solution that is then flamed on hard surfaces,
e.g., stainless sample ports), it has to have enough water content to allow
cell-wall penetration, where the alcohol can then do its deadly work. Too
high an alcohol content and the cell just "lyophilizes," essentially "freeze
dries" and remains in a state of suspended animation, where it can later
reanimate (and give your beer nasty flavors). But I digress. Additionally,
using alcohol near a flame is always dangerous, I am not responsible for your
use of it, and I do not want you to become a molotov cocktail. Use 70%.
Regarding break material in plates, I do not think it's a big deal. You may
also be seeing impurities from the agar - if you use agar from an asian
grocery store, it will put out a lot of break itself. For the money, it's
great stuff. As you know, medical- or scientific grade agar is really
expensive and for our purposes I do not see the utility of its use (expect
special media, as in differential medias).
Finally, the alcohol lamp will flame the loop to a glowing red - it just takes
longer. If you are concerned about time, get a propane torch.
Cheers,
Paul
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:41:09 +1000
From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer@cisnet.COM.AU>
Subject: yeast plates
G'day All
Since I opened my big gob about running a yeast station, I suspose I'll have
to chuck in my stuff on the subject. I'm sure other will cover this better
than me, but I give it my usual down to earth approach.
So, it was truely written
>>>>Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 16:09:16 GMT
From: "dr smith" <drsmithhm@hotmail.com>
Subject: Yeast Culture Questions...
Ok - I've been reading some yeast culturing documents and some of
the facts seem unsanitary. One of the biggest offenders is
culturing plates upside down. It seems to me that the open lip
of the upturned cover would be constantly collecting nasties
around the edge of the culture and contamination inevitable since
glass-glass isn't a great seal.<<<<<
Yeh, at first logic would say you are right. And right you are if its only
this point you have to consider. but there are other points that make
plates being stored and used upside down compusory.
>>> Also, after the plate comes out
of a pressure cooker/autoclave, it would seem that the route
nasties would have to take to contaminate the plate would be much
more torturous since they would have to travel both up under the
lip, horizontally for some distance and then down onto the
media(if the plate is not inverted). Add to that that any
condensation on the cover is also sterile, and I can't fathom
why we'd want to invert them.<<<<
Right again about the path the beasties will take. But (yes you all knew
this was coming) there are also some other rules to consider here. And it
all has to do with the condensation angle. When the plates come out of the
pressure cooker/autoclav, oh yes its all sterile. And we want to keep it
that way. True the water is sterile, but you dont RISK it by letting
anything drop onto the clean media. And you have said youself its not a
perfect seal. So if one bug gets in you dont want to give it an easy ride to
the media. No, upside down, in an environment of relatively still air, well
it has to fight against gravity to get there, doesn't it. My beer belly cant
do it, the one eyed trouser snake is losing it, and bugs just can't do it.
There is also another reason. You want the plates to firm up nice. If you
allow condensation to fall on the surface it doesn't allow it to slowly
evaporate and firm up. There always seems to be some excess water after
making the plates. storing upside dwon allows a nice equilibrium to be
maintained.
>>>Further, when streaking the plate and working in the flame zone,
the cover is apparently left wide open on the table to collect
dust and other contaminates while we're busy streaking the plate
I know the instructions say to work fast, but my amazing talent
for growing mold on agar plates in combination with this
opportunity for contamination doesn't make me relax and have a
craft/home brew.<<<<<<
Yes right again, But (I.m starting to love that word) ther are other things
to consider. If you put the plate need the flame, when you expose the lid
it should be in an updraft. Now this makes its more difficult for stuff to
fall in. And yes there is every likely hood some thing may fall in. Big
deal (now who's going to guess what I'm going to say next ) it still has to
fight against gravity to get back to the plate. Last time I looked, most
haven't grown legs, although with GM anything is possible.
>>>Do any of you get break material in your plates<<<<
OF course, but your point is??????????? Big deal, yeast don't have any
eyes, and still will grow quite happily in the plate..
>>>Also(last one, then I'll shut up and wait for the debate, I
promise), what do you use for a flame source<<<
Just use anything thats bloody hot. Lighters, Alcohol flames (they do work)
etc. I use a simple LPG camp burner. want a good test, put your finger in
it, if it burns you straight away, its hot enough. But as you said stay away
from soot producing heat sources. True they will work, but the buggers are
very messy.
Finally, yes they are not airtight, but they are designed for propogation of
yeast, and others. They are not designed for long term storage. Remember
that and yes there use is fine.
>>>we should put together a aussie/english dictionary I think, <<<
No way, got to be able to continue to string you woosers along the beaten
track. Always keep them wanting (and guessing).
Shout
Graham Sanders
Oh,
to all those out there complaining about the the HUGH number of Aussies
taking up the digest. To me it seems there is a definite lack of them at
the moment. True if Brad does shut-up about his trip OS, I'll cross the
border and sort him out, and like a fart, Warrin chimes in at the most
inapropriate time. But after that its a true australian drought. But watch
out America, for when the drought breaks over here, it just doesn't
rain>>>>>>>>>>>>>...................
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:34:25 -0400
From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707@compuserve.com>
Subject: Homebrew Publicity Campaign
Doug Hurst ( DougH@theshowdept.com) asked about the Homebrew Publicity
Campaign. I saw the commercial at the Home Wine and Beer Associtation
|Conferance at Niagria Falls this spring. The consensus was that it
suffered from a fatal flaw. The commercial was meant to reach out to the
public and create interest in homebrewing. The beer bottle in the picture
was labled "Bitter."
When we live in our own little world we should not forget that there are
other worlds out there.
Dan Listermann
Check out our new E-tail site at listermann.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:36:54 -0400
From: "Peter J. Calinski" <PCalinski@iname.com>
Subject: Out of the closet ???
Marc Sedam requests:
You suggest that people say they didn't notice much with
respect to mash hopping...they should post to the HBD! Tell
the world what you think, people. Nothing behind the
scenes...come out of the closet.
Well, yesterday, I bottled a pale ale that was mash hopped with 3 oz. of
cascades ( for 5 gal.). It was the best tasting beer I ever bottled. I
can't wait to taste the final product.
Pete Calinski
East Amherst NY
Near Buffalo NY
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 10:09:29 -0400
From: Carmen Salvatore <carmen.salvatore@lmco.com>
Subject: Frozen keg woes and fridge problems
Hi All,
I recently kegged the best batch of Hefe-Weizen I've ever brewed. My
wife and I did some informal side by side comparisons with Paulaner,
H-P, and a 3rd that I can't remember at the moment. Wow - what I had was
very comparable, a tweak here or there maybe and by our judgement it'd
be spot on w/H-P which was our favorite. Well, the other night I went to
draw a pint and found that the power strip the fridge was plugged into
was turned off. Damn!! The fridge was about room temp - turned the power
strip back on. The next night my wife goes to get a couple of pints and
she says "Carmen how come this is coming out all slushy - it looks like
it's frozen." WHAT!!! Well the temp in the fridge was about 20
degrees!! I took the keg out, let it thaw, fussed with the temp dial
(which had not been touched in over a month), and was able to barely get
the fridge up to 40 degrees. I put the keg back in, cooled it down, drew
a couple of pints . . . . we looked at each other and at the same time
said "Something's changed - it's not as good as before." Another DAMN!!!
So 2 questions for the collective. First, what would happen to the beer
due the cool/frozen/warm/cool cycle it went through. Apparenly something
'cause it's certainly not the same. It appeared to loose some
carbonation, and developed a flatness ( in taste), as well as thinness.
And second - I know FridgeGuy has been around these parts recently -
what would cause the temp to plumet like that - I was thinking maybe the
thermostat??
Any help would be much appreciated.
Carm Salvatore
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 10:07:46 -0400
From: John Cooper <rjcooper@unix.amherst.edu>
Subject: Little Shop of Hops in NYC
does anybody know if "Little Shop of Hops" in New York City is still
around (it used to be in midtown). if so, anyone have a phone number?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:37:02 -0500
From: Vachom <MVachow@newman.k12.la.us>
Subject: session beer
Doug Hurst asks for a definition of a session beer. A session beer is a
beer fit for a drinking session of several hours where 4 to, say, 8
pints/person are consumed. Implicit in such a definition are the following
qualities: relatively low original gravity, light to medium body, "mild"
taste (that is, not super-hopped, nor spiced, nor smoky, etc.). Guinness,
as its brewed for its home audience (1.038 O.G.), is a good example.
Unfortunately, American craft session beers are hard to come by. If you
were "one over the eight" with Goose Island Honker's Ale or Deschutes
Obsidian Stout, you'd rue the session the next day. The increasingly
prevalent "American wheat" seasonal would probably fall into the category or
the mega-brewers' light beers would certainly fit. The term is also often
synonymous with what many homebrewers refer to as their "house beers"--those
simple beers that we brew in bulk for home consumption.
Mike
New Orleans, LA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:59:14 -0500
From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb@burnsmcd.com>
Subject: Upside Down Plates
dr smith writes:
>Ok - I've been reading some yeast culturing documents and some of
>the facts seem unsanitary. One of the biggest offenders is
>culturing plates upside down.
<<Big Snip>>
When you invert the plate and open the cover, any "nasties"
that fall on (or in) the open cover tend to stay on the open cover.
If you open a plate right-side up, the nasties fall directly onto
the agar surface. It is much better to have the nasties fall on
(in) the cover than onto the surface of the agar.
You may be tempted to turn the plate cover back over so that
nothing falls into it after you open a plate. There two reasons
not to do this. First off, this will increase the handling time which
is directly proportional to the contamination threat. I am not trying
to split hairs but, the extra few seconds that you use to flip the
cover over, and then back again after streaking, could actually
double or triple the amount of time the plate is open to the
atmosphere. Secondly, most contamination in a home lab
environment is on surfaces and not floating around in the air.
If you turn the cover "right side up" you still have to set it
down somewhere. This puts the inside of the cover (at least
the edge anyway) in contact with a potentially contaminated
surface.
>Do any of you get break material in your plates? I then
>poured a plate, and pressure cooked for 25 minutes.
>The surface of the plate is smooth, but the material
>itself looks crappy because of suspended break material
>that was generated in the pressure cooker.
Somebody else was writing about sterilizing the agar plates
WITH AGAR in a pressure cooker. At first it may sound like a
good idea, but if you have ever actually tried it, it is a major
PITA. The agar boils over, the plates spill, you get tons
of condensation, and you can only fit a few plates at a
time in your cooker. Way to much pain and effort, and
for what benefit?
Buy pre-sterialized plastic plates in a sleeve and sterilize your
agar in a glass jar in the pressure cooker. I use a 16-ounce
beer bottle and cover the opening with aluminum foil. Leave
the sterilized agar bottle in the pressure cooker until it has
cooled enough to handle with a latex-gloved hand and yet
the agar is still liquid. Then fill your plates. You can easily
fill a dozen or so plates in no time at all. (This also takes care
of the break problem because all the break material falls to
the bottom and you dont pour it out into the plates)
Quit worrying about contamination. As long as you use
reasonable sanitation practices in you
work area, the just aint that much contamination floating
around to worry about. If you use a home-made glove box
(cardboard box, plastic sheeting for a lid, lined with
aluminum foil, sprayed with Lysol) you will virtually eliminate
most forms of contamination.
>Now, I haven't measured the temperature of an
>alcohol flame, but I have sure doubts that alcohol burns hot
>enough to do this.
You obviously havent tried this. An alcohol flame is plenty
hot enough to get an inoculation hoop glowing red. It
happens almost instantly.
>Further, a candle gives off a ton of soot
Dont use a candle (even if you did, the soot if fairly sterile).
>Would a Bunsen burner not make more sense.........
Only if you like melting your inoculation hoops. Not that
that cost a whole lot of money, but it is not something that
you can run down to the corner store to replace at a
moments notice.
Paul Niebergall
Burns & McDonnell
pnieb@burnsmcd.com
"Illegitimis non carborundum"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:19:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: macher@telerama.com
Subject: Protecting us from ourselves...
Hi all,
I applaud the Janitors for their interest in trying
to protect those who suffer deficiencies in
judgement.
However, if "many corporations are now using
"content filters" on incoming mail" it should be
the responsibility of the subscriber, NOT the
janitors, to determine if the content of any mailing
list is appropriate for his/her specific situation.
I personally have not found recent postings to be
overly offensive. [pehhaps I have using the page down
key more frequently recently] However, I do support the
janitors in whatever they may wish to do to limit
"violations of good taste."
>If subscribing to the HBD is a violation of your
>corporate internet usage policy, I advise you not
>to. I don't wish the HBD to be responsible for
>anyone receiving disciplinary action; however, if
>such action precipitates, it is your own
>responsibility.)
You hit the nail on the head. Mr. Janitor, please
don't put a bigger load on your own shoulders to
protect us from ourselves. You guys do enough
already.
>If we aren't successful, the rush of corporations
>incorporating content filters in their inbound
>email systems will force us to incorporate similar
>to automatically scan and refuse any post
>containing such terms.
I hope you only do so because YOU want to do so,
not because you are trying to protect us from
ourselves. Remember it won't be long before the
word BEER triggers those corporate filters. Filter
BEER out of the HBD and what do you have? You see
my point...
A realistic perspective, I hope...
Bill Macher macher@telerama.lm.com Pittsburgh, Pa USA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:25:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alan McKay <amckay@ottawa.com>
Subject: HBD and AHA
Folks,
Since the AHA already screwed up the HBD once, and almost saw to its
demise, I say we stay as far away from them as possible.
cheers,
-Alan
- --
"Brewers make wort. Yeast Makes Beer."
- Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide
http://www.bodensatz.com/
What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:27:41 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Beer defects
Hi, Jake.
Two of the easiest, and most common, beer "defects" are diacetyl and
DMS. Both are easy to find in the supermarket.
For diacetyl, you should buy a bottle of imitation butter flavor.
Look at the ingredients list. The first (flavor) ingredient should be
diacetyl (water and alcohol will probably rank higher). If you have a
choice, pick the one with the fewest other ingredients.
For DMS, buy a can of corn.
Now, go out and buy some "neutral" beer. American mega-swill usually
works pretty well for this. Maybe something like Miller Light (no
taste, less filling). Add a drop of the butter flavoring to one
bottle of beer. Mix thoroughly. Have someone else pour a small glass
from the doctored bottle and one from an undoctored bottle, and a
third glass from either, without you seeing which is which. The
glasses will need to be labelled so that the pourer can know which is
which (marking 1, 2, 3 works pretty well).
Your job is to sniff and taste all 3. Try to figure out which is the
"odd one out." (This is called a "triangle test.") If you can't tell
the difference, go back and add another drop to the doctored bottle,
pour 3 glasses, etc.
When you can smell and/or taste a difference, *and you get it right*
(gotta ask the pourer at this point), then you will have determined 2
things -- one is your threshold for tasting or smelling diacetyl (at
least in terms of "drops per bottle") -- the second is what a
threshold level of diacetyl smells and tastes like *to you*.
You should then continue to add drops, pour, sniff, taste (probably no
need for further "triangulation" at this point) so that you can see
how the aroma and flavor change as the concentration increases.
Once you've trained yourself to recognize diacetyl, you can work on
DMS. Drain the juice from the can of corn. Add a small amount to a
new bottle of beer (1/4 tsp???) and repeat the triangle-tasting
process until you can recognize the DMS smell and flavor. The canned
corn juice is not exactly DMS, but it'll get you in the ballpark.
Diacetyl and DMS in your beer commonly result from process and
ingredients, but can also arise from bacterial infections. Diacetyl
is produced by the yeast, and is later "removed" by the yeast. Some
yeast leave more diacetyl in the beer than others. But you can also
and a host of other things. Diacetyl can also be produced by a
chemical reaction in the bottle. DMS mostly comes from the grain, and
is left in the beer because it wasn't boiled hard or long enough, or
because it was cooled too slowly, or was covered while cooling.
A common defect resulting from infection is the family of "phenolic"
aromas. These range from "smoky" to "plastic" to "spicy" to
"medicinal" or "band aid". Phenol itself is a not-uncommon ingredient
in sore throat lozenges, because it has a numbing and antibacterial
effect. Check out the shelf in the drug store (or pharmacy in some
variants of the English language) for sore throat lozenges containing
phenol. That will get you one variant of "phenolic." You can use
clove flavored extract to get the "spicy" variant. The others are
harder.
Well, that's probably enough for now...
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:39:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: mike karnowski <djpotpie@yahoo.com>
Subject: mash hopping
Well, here's my 2 cents worth, I made a pale ale (10
gallons) with just pale ale malt and 6 oz. of cascades
(pellets) in the mash. No other hops were added. I
know I shouldn't expect any bitterness out of this
addition but I didn't want future additions to add any
hop aroma which would screw up the results.
Result: nothing! No hop aroma or flavor whatsoever,
also no hop bitterness. Methinks you all are trying to
reinvent the wheel, or else a "better" hop aroma is
indicative that you don't like a hop aroma.
The real KING of beers,
-Elvis
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:57:47 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil@VMS.ARIZONA.EDU>
Subject: censorship
OK so now the HBD is going to come under the same censorship that the FCC
rams donw our throats. We are going to let a bunch of corporate bean
counters dictate the content? For one thing if you are reading the hbd you
should be 21 years old since to drink legally in the US this is the rule.
I know in the rest of the world it is different. At that age one should
be able to make decisions as to what is or is not appropriate. If people
wan the hbd have it delivered to an alternative account. I don't use my
company e-mail account for none work related stuff. If want to use words
like penis, computer network attack, crack, cracking, cryptography, darpa,
DII, electronic warfare, mockingbird, phreaking, tiger team, howard stern,
dilbert etc. then I
am going to and I guess none of my posts will ever appear here again if
this policy is put in place. Take freedom away and you won't get it back
Jim Liddil
North Haven, CT
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:24:17 -0700
From: "Jensen, Craig" <cjensen@toraycompam.com>
Subject: pumpking ale advice?
I am considering brewing a pumpkin ale. Most recipes I've seen call
varying quantities of pumpkin pie type spices (cinnamon, ginger, all
spice, vanilla, nutmeg, etc.), and for 7 to 10 lbs of pumpkin, baked for
an hour or so at 350, then crushed and added to the mash). I'm
wondering if anyone has any advice for making this type of beer? While
I've brewed many all-grain batches (55 - 60?), and tried many different
styles, using pumpkin will be a first for me. I'm particularly
interested in any "watch outs" or hot tips for using pumpkin.
If my system details matter to anyone, it's your basic, garden variety
Gott cooler setup with a false bottom, and utilizing a grant and pump
system to recirculate and transfer from mash tun to the kettle.
Any suggestions would be appreciated! (Post to the HBD, or personal
Emails are fine too.)
Craig Jensen
Wa. St.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:18:15 -0400
From: "Glen Pannicke" <glen@pannicke.net>
Subject: Miracles & culturing
Jim wrote:
>The apparition of the Virgin Mary has appeared in the fallen krausen foam
>of my recent batch of trappist ale!
Ahhh... The Virgin thing is gettin' old. Now I've got an image of St.
Arnold, patron saint of brewers, who appeared on agar plate of cultured
Weinstephan yeast. I know I streaked pit roperly, but the little colonies
formed a bas relief of the saint - bishop's hat & all!
Dr. Smith wrote:
>Ok - I've been reading some yeast culturing documents and some of
>the facts seem unsanitary. One of the biggest offenders is
>culturing plates upside down.
No one really knows why we do this but it wouldn't be culturing if you
didn't do it! Kidding. The plate is turned upside-down to prevent
condensation from falling onto your colonies and bsically, 'messing them
up'. The main point of using a plate is to grow seperate colonies which
(you hope) grew from a single cell for the purposes of isolation, counting,
morphology, etc. You are right with the bottom/cover interface as not being
a good seal. That is why the plates should not be kept for long periods
oftime and that they should be kept wrapped or sealed during storage.
>Do any of you get break material in your plates?
Yep! It's expected. Even when you pressure can media for storage and then
filter it before pouring a plate, you'll *still* get it again after you
autoclave the plates. I can never win....
>Also(last one, then I'll shut up and wait for the debate, I
>promise), what do you use for a flame source?
There will be no debate. Ask my wife: "Glen is always right - even when he
is very wrong." See. Told ya. An alcohol flame or candle will not get a
nichrome or platinum loop hot enough to glow. Butane lighters barely only
get the portion within the flame to glow. Your best bet is to get one of
those mini butane torches (the kind that use the refillable lighter inside)
OR to get a propane tank and brass sweat soldering nozzle. I use the latter
since it it an adjustable flame, and I already had the pieces for other
purposes. I also believe that it is a bit safer than an alcohol lamp
because I just don't like liquid fuels in glass containers. An alcohol lamp
will work fine though, glowing hot is only an indication that it's been in
the flame "long enough". The amount of heat from an alcohol flame is enough
to kill your bugs. Just leave it inthe flame a few seconds more.
===================================================
Glen A. Pannicke
glen@pannicke.net
http://www.pannicke.net
Check http://pgpkeys.mit.edu/ for PGP public key
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
==================================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:49:12 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker@mail.jhmi.edu>
Subject: Yeast culturing
Concerning yeast culturing, "Dr. Smith" asks:
>...culturing plates upside down. It seems to me that the open lip
>of the upturned cover would be constantly collecting nasties
>around the edge of the culture and contamination inevitable since
>glass-glass isn't a great seal.... Add to that that any
>condensation on the cover is also sterile, and I can't fathom
>why we'd want to invert them."
The condensation is the reason you culture plates are inverted. If you
incubate your plates upright then condensation forming on the inside of the
lid can drip or run down onto the surface of the media. This can then make a
mess out of the area where you are trying to grow the organisms. It is not
so much of a problem if the plates have dried fairly well, or if the
incubation takes place at room temp, but if you are incubating at warm temps
it becomes more of a concern.
If you are worried about airborne contaminants you can stow the plates in an
enclosed space like a drawer or cabinet. You can also lightly cover the
plates with foil in such a way that you allow airflow but limit any dust.
>Further, when streaking the plate and working in the flame zone,
>the cover is apparently left wide open on the table to collect
>dust and other contaminates while we're busy streaking the plate.
>I know the instructions say to work fast, but my amazing talent
>for growing mold on agar plates in combination with this
>opportunity for contamination doesn't make me relax and have a
>craft/home brew."
You can hold the lid instead of setting it down while streaking or you can
set the lid down on a clean surface. Again, you can pretty much consider
foil or plastic wrap coming right off the roll as sanitary for all
homebrewing intents and purposes.
>Do any of you get break material in your plates? I put 1oz DME,
>1 cup water, and 1 tsp of agar in a pot an boiled for 10 minutes
>to combine. I then poured a plate, and pressure cooked for 25
>minutes. The surface of the plate is smooth, but the material
>itself looks crappy because of suspended break material that was
>generated in the pressure cooker. I know I could pressure can
>the wort before pouring plates to get the trub out, but it
>seems like one heck of a lot of work just to make slants/plates.
This material won't cause you any trouble. Ignore it.
>Also(last one, then I'll shut up and wait for the debate, I
>promise), what do you use for a flame source? An alcohol lamp or
>candle is called for in some of the web resources I've seen, but
>they also indicate that the inoculation loop is heated until
>glowing red. Now, I haven't measured the temperature of an
>alcohol flame, but I have sure doubts that alcohol burns hot
>enough to do this...
An alcohol flame is fine and does indeed get hot enough to get the loop
glowing if that's what you're looking for. Bunsen burners are great but not
necessary. Those little acetylene torches that hardware stores sell are
quite nifty too.
I don't know how true it is but a microbiologist I trained under once told
me that the goal wasn't actually to get the loop glowing hot but rather to
pass it through the reducing portion of the flame - that this was
sufficient. He even said that Pasteur used to have his students _flame their
hands_ ! (still, I do get my loop glowing just to be on the safe side).
-Alan Meeker
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:19:55 -0600
From: "Paul Gatza" <Paulg@aob.org>
Subject: AHA Sponsorship
Hi everyone. Thanks for all of the private and public discussion regarding
AHA sponsorship of the HBD. I am in complete agreement that AHA sponsorship
of the HBD does fit our mission. Financially we are unable to fund much
research, and many HBDers are doing the cutting edge work at home. The HBD
is the forum for the dissemination and discussion of much of the advances in
homebrewing.
The topic of AHA sponsorship of the HBD has received significant discussion
among the AHA Board of Advisors. One thought is to hold a special
fundraising event at the next AHA national homebrewers conference (which
will be in Los Angeles June 21-23, a press release will be out soon).
Another thought is to promote an extension of the benefits of sponsors to
the AHA by spreading some exposure for the sponsor across to the HBD.
However we figure it out, the AHA Board has shown a commitment to doing what
we can.
We are currently in the preliminary budgeting stage for 2001 here at the
Association of Brewers. I will be including a $1200 AHA sponsorship of the
HBD in that budget, and hopefully we can fund the rest of the needed dollars
through some of the creative ideas the board and membership comes up with.
For those coming to the Great American Beer Festival next week, please stop
by the Association of Brewers booth.
Paul Gatza
Director-American Homebrewers Association
Association of Brewers
736 Pearl St. (303) 447-0816 ext. 122
Boulder, CO 80302 (303) 447-2825 fax
mailto:paulg@aob.org
You may join the AHA at www.beertown.org
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 14:23:11 -0400
From: "Jeff Beinhaur" <beinhaur@email.msn.com>
Subject: Hacker-Pschorr
Excuse the somewhat non-related post, but, it is about beer. As much as I
complain about my job there are two good things. One, I'm paid quite well
and two, on Friday's we get a case of beer and consume it whilst we work (or
at least try to work, cause sometimes the dart game gets in the way). So
hear I sit at my desk enjoying a Hacker-Pschorr Oktoberfest when I notice on
the label it says "ALE". Wait a minute, I thought a marzen or Oktoberfest
was a lager. What gives? I seem to remember a discussion about this
somewhere before but a search of archives as well as the Paulener website
revealed nothing. Actually the website I was directed to was Paulener and
stated the Hacker-Pschorr brewery in Munich was closed. Does anyone have any
info. on the brewery and the beer?
Jeff Beinhaur, Camp Hill, PA
Home of the "Award Winning" Yellow Breeches Brewery
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:25:07 -0500
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen@rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: covered boils
Al Korzonas sneaks into the HBD under cover of darkness long enough to
write:
> Actually, I'm surprised that anyone would suggest a gentle boil or to
> keep the lid on during the boil. Both are great ways to increase
> dimethyl sulphide (DMS), which lends a cooked corn aroma, in your
> finished beer.
Now, I'm sure that even as I'm typing this, Dave Burley has already
responded that his beers don't have DMS. But I will add my own thoughts on
this.
I did not interpret anything that was posted as suggesting that a gentle
boil should be conducted. What I got was that a rolling boil could be
maintained with less application of heat by partially covering the kettle. I
don't consider the two to be the same thing.
It was also emphasized that this was a partially covered boil. The steam
carrying the DMS is still leaving the kettle, albeit at a reduced rate. If
you're worried about condensation returning it to the wort, simply removing
the lid for the last few minutes of the boil should solve that problem,
shouldn't it?
If people were having a DMS problem from partially covered boils, wouldn't
someone have written in to tell us of that earlier in this debate? Anyway,
I'm taking Dave's recommendations to heart, and with my newly purchased lid,
will be doing a partially covered boil this weekend. If my dunkleweizen
tastes like a dunklemaizen then I'll be the first to harangue Mr Burley for
his "bad" advice. ;-)
Cheers,
Brian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 14:33:20 +0000
From: "Jim Busch" <jim@victorybeer.com>
Subject: SoFB I and III
I was amused when the first version of this was rejected because I
used German umlats!
(Your article sent to homebrew is being rejected. The reason:
-- Contains non-ascii characters --)
Al Korzonas mentions the original Spirit of Belgium conference that BURP
hosted many years ago (and dont forget SoFB III is Jan 13/14 2001 in
Northern Va. See: http://www.burp.org/SoB2001)
< This all comes from a talk given by a brewmaster
<from an Austrian (formerly from a Belgian) brewery at the first
<Spirit of Belgium conference near Washington, D.C.
Al is referring to Diplom Braumeister Eric Toft, Weihenstephen grad
who did work in Belgium during his schooling but has since worked in
Bavaria. Eric is actually one of the few (only?) US born brewers to
be a head brewer in Bavaria. At the time of the SoFB I, Eric was
number 2 brewer at Schlossbrauerei Steiner, near Traunstein, Bayern.
He is now number one brewmaster at Schoenram and resides above the
BrauStuberl. Liz and I will be visiting Eric and his family next
month and Im excited to tour this rare fast growing brewery in
OberBayern. I say rare since these days it much more common for small
(less than 50K Hectolitres/yr) breweries to be losing market share
rather than gaining. BTW, I think Eric told me that all of his beers
are decocted and open fermented as well. Many lagers actually taste
smoother when open fermented, I know our Brandywine Valley Lager has
improved with open fermentation.
Regarding the transcripts for SoFB I, I know BT was working on these
and I know that Eric provided his inputs several years ago. The
lecture given by Phillipe Perpette from the University of Leuven alone
would be well worth seeing in print. Perhaps if Steven is reading
this he can let us know if it could be released on hbd.org or even the
Realbeer page?
Decoction does make a difference even if the protein matrix is more
degraded in most modern malts. Also, if you buy enough malt you can
order up your Kolbach index to meet your desires but at a cost. One
style I saw overlooked in Al's excellent post was Festbier/Ur Maerzen
which even though it is Munich malt based can really benefit from a
decoction or two.
Prost!
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:24:40 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam@unc.edu>
Subject: Re: mash hopping clarification
Sure. I consider a thick mash ratio to be 1qt/lb or less.
As for gravity, I've started to observe less hop flavor and aroma above 1.090.
BUT, I did mash hop a Samichlaus clone with an OG of 1.115, and the hop aroma
is in there.
-Marc
Martin_Brungard@urscorp.com wrote:
> Marc,
>
> You mentioned that you think mash hopping is effected by thick mashes and
> high gravity in your recent HBD post. Could you quantify what you consider
> a thick mash or high gravity with respect to mash hopping? Maybe you should
> post this to HBD?
>
> I just bottled an american brown ale that I mash hopped with a combo of old
> hops I had in the freezer. I think it was about 0.25 oz of hallertaurer,
> 0.5 oz saaz, and 0.5 oz cascade. I get the impression that its the
> essential oil quantity that is more important for mash hopping ( higher is
> better for this use, right?) The beer was quite tasty out of the bottling
> bucket, so I'm looking forward to it.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #3442, 09/30/00
*************************************
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