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Mead Lovers Digest #1116
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1116, 19 July 2004
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1116 19 July 2004
Forum for Discussion of Mead Making and Consuming
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
I couldn't help it ("Lane Gray, Czar Castic")
Re: Not sure what I got...... (Marc Shapiro)
Re: Sorbate/Benzoate question (Marc Shapiro)
Re: Sulfites ("Dan McFeeley")
Re: Primary for Melomel (Talon McCormick)
Not sure what I got.... (Talon McCormick)
re: preservatives in juice (Bill & Ramona Kuhn)
Re: New Heating Thread ("Dan McFeeley")
How I saved my batch of Mead with Sorbates in them. ("charles w jarvis III")
Black currant mel (Leo Vitt)
Black Current melomel (Sue Fregien)
black currants (and stranger fruits) (Dick Dunn)
NOTE: Digest appears when there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
Use mead-request@talisman.com for [un]subscribe/admin requests.
Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: I couldn't help it
From: "Lane Gray, Czar Castic" <CGray2@kc.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:58:03 -0500
On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:21:55 -0600 (MDT), Chazzone wrote:
>
> I am from the pasteurization camp, and I have cyser, other melomels, and
> metheglins older than 5 yrs., and it just keeps getting better.
>
Same with mine that have stayed around, and i'm from the clean, pitch and
pray club. No infected batches yet.
>
> IMO sulfites are not only unnecessary, but are dangerous and should
> never be
> allowed in something as wholesome and healthy as meade.
>
Wanna bet Bunratty puts 'em in their stuff (and, since they bought a
trademark, they're the only ones supposed to use it, just like Paul Beard
and Tim Scheerhorn can't make Dobros)?
(Oh, and the terminal 'e' just looks pretentious)
- --
Lane Gray
And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. Gen
2:25
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Not sure what I got......
From: Marc Shapiro <mshapiro_42@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:04:12 -0400
Patrick Devaney <damien777@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So I was enjoying some excellent Apricot nectar the
> other day (Russian deli by my house has so many
> juices!), and of course it got me to thinking.... so
> now I have a small carboy of the stuff going, just
> yeast, the nectar, and some water.
>
> My question is, exactly what is it that I'm making?
> There's no honey in it, so it's not a mead. Anyone
> out there know what I'm saupposed to be calling this stuff??
Apricot Wine.
- --
Marc Shapiro
mshapiro_42@yahoo.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Sorbate/Benzoate question
From: Marc Shapiro <mshapiro_42@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 13:12:35 -0400
DocMac9582@aol.com wrote:
> Both potassius sorbate and sodium benzoate are preservatives to avoid the
> start of refermentation. I have read that if potassium sorbate is used
> to try to stop an ongoing fermentation, it gives a rotten germanium smell
> to the product that doesn't go away.
As I understand it, the germanium smell problem is not with trying to
stop an ongoing fermentation with sorbate (although that will not stop the
fermentation on its own) but with the onset of a malolactic fermentation
afterwards. Using sulfites WITH the sorbate will prevent future malolactic
fermentation and the resulting smell. Sorbate, by itself, does nothing
to prevent malolactic fermentation.
NOTE: I am not recommending the use of sulfites to anyone! I try to avoid
them, whenever possible, myself, but I am not looking for flames wars on
the subject.
- --
Marc Shapiro
mshapiro_42@yahoo.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Sulfites
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:20:52 -0500
On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, in MLD 1114, Scott Slezak asked:
>The heat vs no heat debate has sparked a question in my mind,
>something I've been mulling over for awhile. That question is:
>is sulfiting really necessary to protect mead during long aging?
>I'm not really interested in theory, I want to hear from people
>who have had 5 year old unsulfited mead, for example. How
>did it stand up to the test of time?
I haven't used sulfites except for my first batch, never used 'em
again. All of my meads, five years old, older, are just fine. A
strawberry melomel won a silver medal when it was four years
old, no sulfites. Ken Schramm's recently posted figures on
bacterial counts are also helpful here.
Robert Kim and C.Y. Lee of the University of Cornell did some
research into the use of honey in winemaking as a substitute for
sulfites and even patented the method. The exact cause hasn't
been identified, but apparently honey is able to inhibit browning.
I know I should be listing citations, but my files are horribly
disorganized right now, and the dogs are wanting their walk.
Apologies!
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Primary for Melomel
From: Talon McCormick <nmccormick@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:52:55 -0700 (PDT)
For a primary ferment, I'd let it go for a full 30 to 45 days.
As for the addition of fruit, I've heard my different thoughts on this...
My first thought is to suggest using a mesh bag with the marbles to keep
it below the surface of the must so that the alcohol can extract the juice
and flavors from the fruit. As for length of time, I normally go for
a month to get as much out of the fruit as I can. Others say as little
as 2 weeks is enough. My reason for the whole month is that even though
you are adding sugars in the form of fruit and feeding the fermentation,
there is already alcohol to steralize the fruit and pull the good stuff out
of it. So, with that in mind, the fruit isn't going to sit and rot in the
bottom, it's just going to give more for the whole month as the yeast and
alcohold consume the sugars and take on the characteristics of the fruit.
If after 2 or 3 weeks and you've had a nip, your mead tastes fine, then
by all means pull the fruit out.
Talon.
------------------------------
Subject: Not sure what I got....
From: Talon McCormick <nmccormick@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:53:24 -0700 (PDT)
Well Patrick,
What you have there is a fine apricot wine. Sit back and enjoy a nice
glass when it comes of age.
Talon.
------------------------------
Subject: re: preservatives in juice
From: Bill & Ramona Kuhn <kuhn@direcway.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 07:00:27 -0600
So, why use cider with preservatives when organic apple juice is readily
available and relatively inexpensive. 4 gallons of organic apple juice,
5-8 pounds of honey, some Lalvin 71B-1122, and water to make 5 gallons
(not much). I heat a gallon of the juice a bit to dissolve the honey,
but don't worry about pasteurizing it. The apple juice is about 8% PA,
so the resulting mead is usually about 12%-15%, very dry and very apple.
No other ingredients necessary, unless you prefer off dry, in which case
add sorbate and then a pound of honey before bottling for a little
sweetness. After a year (if it makes it that far), it is truly the
nectar of the Gods. Be careful, though, it is MUCH more potent than it
tastes...
Bill
A minimalist mead maker in New Mexico
------------------------------
Subject: Re: New Heating Thread
From: "Dan McFeeley" <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 13:04:21 -0500
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, in MLD 1115, Zachary Hilgers asked:
>I've been a lurker for years now, and finally I've decided to post
>something. My background is mead maker for 10+ years. I'm
>partners in a homebrew supply store in the Phoenix, AZ area. I
>have a customer that is about 30 years old, who has been making
>mead for 10+ years himself, and is using recipes handed down
>from his grandfather. His method of sanitizing the mead must is
>by heating, very slowly and gently without scorching, the honey
>itself, without any addition of water! Has anyone heard of this?
>He slowly heats to about 165 F to sanitize, then adds water,
>nutrients, teas, lemons, and fruit to produce mostly some of the
>best melomels I've ever had.
Here's an old recipe that starts with heating the honey
(tacked on below the .sig). I don't know of any other
examples -- hopefully someone else can come up with
other references.
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
Le Menagier de Paris, c. 1393, (Power's translation, 1928, pp. 293-4)
BEVERAGES FOR THE SICK - BOCHET
To make six sesters of bochet take six pints of very soft honey and set it
in a cauldron on the fire, and boil it and stir it for as long as it goes on
rising and as long as you see it throwing up liquid in little bubbles which
burst and in bursting give off a little blackish steam; and then move it,
and put in seven sesters of water and boil them until it is reduced to six
sesters, always stirring. And then put it in a tub to cool until it be just
warm, and then run it through a sieve, and afterwards put it in a cask and
add half a pint of leaven of beer, for it is this which makes it piquant
(and if you put in leaven of bread, it is as good for the taste, but the
colour will be duller), and cover it warmly and well when you prepare it.
And if you would make it very good, add thereto an ounce of ginger, long
pepper, grain of Paradise and cloves, as much of the one as of the other,
save that there shall be less of the cloves, and put them in a linen bag and
cast it therein. And when it hath been therein for two or three days, and
the brochet tastes enough of the spices and is sufficiently piquant, take
out the bag and squeeze it and put it in the other barrel that you are
making. And thus this powder will serve you well two or three times over."
------------------------------
Subject: How I saved my batch of Mead with Sorbates in them.
From: "charles w jarvis III" <charleswjarvis3@airdial.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 14:47:06 -0500
I did it! With a little help from Matt Maples from liquid Solutions
...Thanks Matt.
I started a 5 gallon batch of Cyser using Apple Ciders and a few Cherry
ciders that ended up having sorbates and Benzoate in them. After
pitching a VERY healthy yeast starter (used RAW sugar and honey....boy
they loved that stuff!) it fizzled in just a day or two. I let it sit
for another week. I couldn't bring myself to throw out almost 50 bucks
worth of honey and ciders. I posted a week ago or so about my dilemma to
which Matt responded directly .... have I thanked him enough yet ....
nope! He suggested heating it to break down the Sorbates. I had intended
to try the no-heat method, but at this point didn't have much choice.
After pouring the whole batch back into stock pot, I slowly brought the
whole mess up to 180. As soon as it hit 180 I shut off the heat and just
stirred until it cooled off. I did add some ice to get it down some, but
not really enough to dilute it much. This time I made another yeast
starter using Lalvin 71B-1122 (which I am most unfamiliar with) Because
of the added ice I had a bit more than 5 gallons so I poured a half
gallon into a gallon jug with a splash of yeast starter and cold water
to make a gallon and capped loosely. I added just under a half gallon of
cold water to the 5 gallon batch and pitched the hungry little buggers.
the reaction? one word: WOW!
the gallon jug is almost foaming over and the 5 gallon batch is bubbling
MORE than once a second after three days. (started once every 5 seconds
which I though was good)
Not sure how its all gonna end up....but it sure ain't going down the
drain! (well, maybe after being filtered through my kidneys first!)
thanks for all the info here. keep up the good work. I'm going back into
"lurk" mode after typing a novel here.
ok, one more time: Thank you Matt !
Charles
(Friendship,WI)
------------------------------
Subject: Black currant mel
From: Leo Vitt <leo_vitt@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 22:24:57 -0700 (PDT)
Tim asked about how many currants he should put into a melomel.
"If nobody has a better recommendation I'll probably try about a pound per
gallon, figuring I can always blend it back with straight mead if it comes
out too strong."
I suggest 3 lbs per gallon. I have made red currant melomel, but have
not used black currants.
I agree with Tim that it is easier to thin out a fruit flavor than to
add more, especially with less common fruit like currants.
=====
Leo Vitt
Sidney, NE
------------------------------
Subject: Black Current melomel
From: Sue Fregien <sue@tervolk.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 17:51:07 -0500
> Anybody here tried a Black Current Melomel? How much fruit would you use?
>
> My currants are just now ripening and I have probably 3 pounds of fresh
> fruit, plus another pound or two in the freezer from last year. These are
> really strongly flavored, and quite bitter; apparently lots of
> tannin. (Maybe I should save some for cider?)
>
> If nobody has a better recommendation I'll probably try about a pound per
> gallon, figuring I can always blend it back with straight mead if it comes
> out too strong.
>
A couple of years ago, while we were touring White Winter Winery in
Iron River, Jon suggested to us that when making Black Current mead, to
chill it to just above freezing before bottling. He feels it softens
it and rounds out the flavor some. I've never tried to make it but I
remember this point.
Jim
p.s. Spell it however you would like, I'd still rather drink mead than
just about anything else!
------------------------------
Subject: black currants (and stranger fruits)
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 22:41:54 -0600 (MDT)
Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org> wrote:
> Anybody here tried a Black Current Melomel? How much fruit would you use?
>
> My currants are just now ripening and I have probably 3 pounds of fresh
> fruit, plus another pound or two in the freezer from last year...
Nice timing. I was thinking about a blackcurrant melomel as I was picking
this week...many pounds of them. I did a BC melomel (sorta) last year...
>...These are really strongly flavored, and quite bitter; apparently lots of
> tannin...
I had the same reaction, and because of the strong flavor (somewhat musky)
I didn't think it would be a great idea to go nutso with them. Since I'd
made several redcurrant melomels in the past, I decided to make a dry
melomel using both black and red currants so that I could keep it in
character, have enough fruit, yet not get too carried away with the black
currants. (Batch name: Alternated Currant) In a 3-gallon batch I used
2.75 lb redcurrants and 2 lb blackcurrants.
It turned out that the blackcurrant character didn't overwhelm it; in fact
it wasn't nearly as strong as I thought it could be. I think I might try
a straight blackcurrant melomel.
_ _ _ _ _
On to stranger melomels. In 2002 I had made a buffalo berry melomel.
I wrote a short note to MLD at the time, but didn't know how it would
turn out. After some time I can report...it turned out well, but not
at all as I would have expected. The buffalo berries contributed fruit
character and substantial (but pleasant) tannin. One surprise was that
the berries are bright red (like red currants) yet they contributed
no noticeable color to the mead. And after time, it's like a dry and
rather assertive white wine.
_ _ _ _ _
What can anyone say about sand cherries for mead? To be careful, I have
some thought that name may apply to various plants, not sure. What we
have here is a sort of windbreak/bird-food bush (_Prunus_ _besseyi_ if
I believe the academics) which produces an almost-black fruit smaller
than a grape. It's tasty but tart and somewhat tannic, which all seems
good. I froze some last year but never got around to using them; we've
got a reasonable "crop" coming up this year and I'm wondering if they
are really worth making a melomel. (They're a slight annoyance to pick
but a real pain to pit.)
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1116
*******************************
