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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 549
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #549
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Saturday, 13 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 549
Re: no bullet puffs
Re: no bullet puffs
Re: no bullet puffs
Re: no bullet puffs
Re: no bullet puffs
Re: no bullet puffs
Re: tag tracing tools
Re: Auto-determine WAD ty
Re: no bullet puffs
Re: Auto-determine WAD ty
Re: Auto-determine WAD ty
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "J. Kugelman" <kugelman@mnsinc.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 19:38:17 PST
Subject: Re: no bullet puffs
I thought it involved the use of F_SKY1. When F_SKY1 is used on the
sectors referenced on both sides of the line, no puffs appear. This
happens in E1M8, BTW.
------------------------------
From: Fairfax Shield McCandlish <fsm3m@fermi.clas.virginia.edu>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 20:30:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: no bullet puffs
>
>
> Doom is over two years old and we still don't know all about it... Who will
> discover what makes the puffs appear or disappear on 2S lines?
>
It all depends on whether or not the linedef's sector
is f_sky or not, no? Just like with the rocket eating walls..
- -*Avatar*-
------------------------------
From: John Wakelin <johnw@datametrics.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 19:27:08 -0500
Subject: Re: no bullet puffs
> From: Joel Huenink <jh32322@ltec.net>
> Dont quote me on this but they only seem to appear if there is 3
> surfaces exposed and they are upper and lower unpegged like below
> tall windows or openings with a ledge below and a roof. I played
> with pegging lines differently but that didn't seem to change
> anything.
Sorry Joel...I kinda have to quote ya :)
Anyway, try this. Go into map 03 of regular' ol doom2. go through
the first door, head to your right and up the stairs around the left
corner ahead is a lift ... ride it to the top. Straight ahead is the
level's namesake 'gauntlet' jump down into the water on the right side
of it and face the guantlet near the end (where it meets the
island stucture on the far side). For those of you who want to take
my word for this and jump straight into your editor you need to be at
apprx. 3840,3140 and facing due north. Now fire your SSG into that
corner where the gauntlet meets the structure. A weird effect no?
only half of the puffs show. What is different between these two
lines? Only one thing really jumps out at me and that is that the
puffs are not showing up on the lines that border two adjacent
sectors with the sky ceiling.
BTW this level contains about every variation of 2 sided line
combination that you can think of.
Comments?
johnw
-= John Wakelin =-
-= .sig copyright violator =-
-= TeamTNT - Member =-
------------------------------
From: Joel Huenink <jh32322@ltec.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 01:24:32 -0600
Subject: Re: no bullet puffs
John Wakelin wrote:
>
> > From: Joel Huenink <jh32322@ltec.net>
>
> > Dont quote me on this but they only seem to appear if there is 3
> > surfaces exposed and they are upper and lower unpegged like below
> > tall windows or openings with a ledge below and a roof. I played
> > with pegging lines differently but that didn't seem to change
> > anything.
>
> Sorry Joel...I kinda have to quote ya :)
>
> Anyway, try this. Go into map 03 of regular' ol doom2. go through
> the first door, head to your right and up the stairs around the left
> corner ahead is a lift ... ride it to the top. Straight ahead is the
> level's namesake 'gauntlet' jump down into the water on the right side
> of it and face the guantlet near the end (where it meets the
> island stucture on the far side). For those of you who want to take
> my word for this and jump straight into your editor you need to be at
> apprx. 3840,3140 and facing due north. Now fire your SSG into that
> corner where the gauntlet meets the structure. A weird effect no?
> only half of the puffs show. What is different between these two
> lines? Only one thing really jumps out at me and that is that the
> puffs are not showing up on the lines that border two adjacent
> sectors with the sky ceiling.
>
> BTW this level contains about every variation of 2 sided line
> combination that you can think of.
>
> Comments?
I beleive I was right in the first place about there having to be a
ledge, a recessed area and then a roof or upper area. The area with no
bullet puffs has no lowered ceiling area. My belief is that the sky
texture has nothing to do with it and there must be a upper and lower
texure with a recessed area to get a bullet puff on a two sided line.
Joel
------------------------------
From: Raphael.Quinet@eed.ericsson.se
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:04:02 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Re: no bullet puffs
At 01:24:32 -0600, Joel Huenink <jh32322@ltec.net> wrote:
> I beleive I was right in the first place about there having to be a
> ledge, a recessed area and then a roof or upper area. The area with no
> bullet puffs has no lowered ceiling area. My belief is that the sky
> texture has nothing to do with it and there must be a upper and lower
> texure with a recessed area to get a bullet puff on a two sided line.
Well, now my belief is that you have to be shooting at a "lower" texture
of a two-sided linedef which has a sky ceiling on both sides. I just did
several tests with DEU and Doom II (the Solaris version) and this is the
only way to get the "disapearing puffs" effect. Take for example the
third level of Doom II, as John Wakelin described: if you replace the
sky texture with something else, the puffs come back!
- -Raphael
------------------------------
From: Pandion-Knight <s337239@student.uq.edu.au>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 20:37:48 +1000 (GMT+1000)
Subject: Re: no bullet puffs
To settle the issue.. i know for a FACT that a lower texture will NOT
show bullet puffs if there is no upper texture accompanying it. The sky
does not have to be f_sky1 or anything, it just so happens that a lot of
this bullet puff stuff happens in open windows.
By FACT i mean.. extensive testing and making levels. As close as i can
get without asking John Romero :)
Anyways to prove it.. make a pillar outside someplace in map01 of doom2
with any editor you want. Make sure it has no "roof" at all. Shoot it
with a chaingun, no bullet puffs.
Lower the ceiling of the texture and shoot again, and you'll get
bullets. Guaranteed.
Thats why I always put roofs over my outside sector areas.
Hope I helped.
Christopher Voutsis
Email: s337239@student.uq.edu.au
Proudly sponsored by Hanes FlameProof underwear.
------------------------------
From: matt.tagliaferri@pcohio.com (Matt Tagliaferri)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 21:50:00 -0500
Subject: Re: tag tracing tools
DO>At 04:09:27 -0600 (CST), "Gregg J. Anderson" <gander@prairie.lakes.com> wrote
DO>> Does anyone know if any available tools will give me a detailed
DO>> report on tag associations?
DO>>
DoomCAD also points out all matching sectors for a highlighted lDef,
and vice-versa. The integrity check will also show lDef tag w/ NO
matching sectors, and sectors w/ NO matching lDefs.
matt tag
_ _ ---------------------------------------------------------------
|_|_| PC-OHIO PCBoard OIS pcohio.com HST 16.8: 216-381-3320
|_|_| The Best BBS in America Cleveland, OH V34+ 33.6: 216-691-3030
---------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: matt.tagliaferri@pcohio.com (Matt Tagliaferri)
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 21:54:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Auto-determine WAD ty
DO>> >There is no method to determine if a PWAD is for DOOM, HERETIC or HEXEN,
DO>> >and actually this sucks, because a HEXEN PWAD read with DOOM settings
DO>> >will look real weird ;-)
DO>>
DO>You should also check the LineDef structure, which is different in Doom and
DO>Hexen.
You can check it, but how? Size doesn't work for Things, as one is 20 large
and one is 10 large, so if a Things Lump is 200 large, it doesn't tell you
which game it is.
Same w/ lDefs: if a lump is 896 large, it is divisible by both 14 AND 16.
I've finally decided to look for the presence of a BEHAVIOR lump, since a
Hexen WAD won't run w/o one.
matt tag
_ _ ---------------------------------------------------------------
|_|_| PC-OHIO PCBoard OIS pcohio.com HST 16.8: 216-381-3320
|_|_| The Best BBS in America Cleveland, OH V34+ 33.6: 216-691-3030
---------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Joel Huenink <jh32322@ltec.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:57:10 -0600
Subject: Re: no bullet puffs
Pandion-Knight wrote:
>
> To settle the issue.. i know for a FACT that a lower texture will NOT
> show bullet puffs if there is no upper texture accompanying it. The sky
> does not have to be f_sky1 or anything, it just so happens that a lot of
> this bullet puff stuff happens in open windows.
>
> By FACT i mean.. extensive testing and making levels. As close as i can
> get without asking John Romero :)
>
> Anyways to prove it.. make a pillar outside someplace in map01 of doom2
> with any editor you want. Make sure it has no "roof" at all. Shoot it
> with a chaingun, no bullet puffs.
>
> Lower the ceiling of the texture and shoot again, and you'll get
> bullets. Guaranteed.
>
> Thats why I always put roofs over my outside sector areas.
>
> Hope I helped.
>
> Christopher Voutsis
> Email: s337239@student.uq.edu.au
>
> Proudly sponsored by Hanes FlameProof underwear.
Exactly what I said, thanks Chris there must be a ledge and a lowered
ceiling
Joel Huenink
------------------------------
From: "J. Kugelman" <kugelman@mnsinc.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 13:11:31 PST
Subject: Re: Auto-determine WAD ty
> I've finally decided to look for the presence of a BEHAVIOR lump, since a
> Hexen WAD won't run w/o one.
This might not work, since the way I work, I make the scripts WAD separate
from my level WAD, which I find more convenient. Then I join them together
when I want to test my level. It would be a pain to have to edit my final
WAD, since it would require a lot of work to rebuild the thing everytime I
want to try it. I don't use DOOMCad, but I'm sure there are people who work
the same way who do.
------------------------------
From: Robert Fenske Jr <fenske@rgfpc.electro.swri.edu>
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 17:00:39 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Auto-determine WAD ty
On Fri, 12 Jan 1996, J. Kugelman wrote:
> > I've finally decided to look for the presence of a BEHAVIOR lump, since a
> > Hexen WAD won't run w/o one.
>
> This might not work, since the way I work, I make the scripts WAD separate
> from my level WAD, which I find more convenient. Then I join them together
> when I want to test my level. It would be a pain to have to edit my final
> WAD, since it would require a lot of work to rebuild the thing everytime I
It's also conceivable that someone would make a DOOM II PWAD that
contains a texture named BEHAVIOR that immediately follows the REJECT part
of the level data.
Now consider this. Below is the field layouts of the two kinds of
LINEDEFS we have to deal with. The noteworthy alignment is the one so marked
below.
DOOM-style LINEDEF HEXEN-style LINEDEF
from index from index
to index to index
flags flags
special special 1
sector tag special 2
right side index special 3
left side index <---> right side index
left side index
Since any usefully playable WAD must have some one-sided lines,
meaning that the left side index will be -1 for some of the lines. Thus
if you starting by assuming the PWAD is for HEXEN and then find a right
side index that is -1, it must really be a DOOM-style WAD because right side
indices can not be -1. The only way I can think of that a WAD could be
mis-identified with this method is if it's a DOOM-style WAD that has only
2-sided lines. I presume only an "expert" would be creating such WADs ...
Robert Fenske, Jr. rfenske@swri.edu Sw | The Taming the C*sm*s series:
Electromagnetics Division /R---\ |
Southwest Research Institute | I | | "The Martian canals were the
San Antonio, Texas USA \----/ | Martians' last ditch effort."
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #549
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