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Doom Editing Digest Vol. 01 Nr. 062
From: owner-doom-editing-digest
To: doom-editing-digest@nvg.unit.no
Subject: doom-editing-digest V1 #62
Reply-To: doom-editing
Errors-To: owner-doom-editing-digest
Precedence: bulk
doom-editing-digest Tuesday, 22 November 1994 Volume 01 : Number 062
Re: Switching off Linedef 17
Re: Light-level bit list?
Re: Light-level bit list?
Re: Policy at ORST
Re: Policy at ORST
Re: Policy at ORST
Editor comparisons
Re: DEU 5.3 again
Re: DEU 5.3 again
Re: DEU 5.3 again
Re: DEU 5.3
Re: DEU 5.3
Re: DoomCAD 5.0
Re: DEU 5.3
Re: Policy at ORST
Re: DEU 5.3 again
Re: DEU 5.3 again
Re: Policy at ORST
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Kram Llens" <kram_llens@rmit.edu.au>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 09:29:56 EST-10
Subject: Re: Switching off Linedef 17
> > >> I want to have an area that flashes as a warning when
> > another player is in another area, but want it switched off aggain. <<
> >
>
> Yes, put "lights off" linedefs outside of the "lightes on" (see below).
>
> ===========+===+======================+===+===========
> | | | |
> | | Sucker hole | |
> | | (I mean "hallway") | |
> ===========+===+======================+===+===========
> ^ ^ ^ ^
> | | | |
> Lights off-+ | | +-Lights off
> Lights on---+ +---Lights on
>
> You could wrap these around all the doorways into and out of the area in
> question (making sure you leave at least 32 "units" between the linedefs and
> the doo so that the door triggers still work. I did this sort of thing with
> an earlier map with start and stop crushing cielings I had hidden with
> collumns to act as noisemakers.
>
this has a problem that on the way out the lights will be turned off
again....
unless I have:
============================================
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
============================================
on off on on off on
Did i just solve my own problem again??
am i smarter than i think?
Kram (who is really bad at ascii grafix)
Kram_Llens@rmit.edu.au RMIT, Melbourne, Australia
Ph (03) 660 5378 Fax (03) 660 5342
"I bought some dehydrated water, but I don't
know what to add to it" -Steven Wright
------------------------------
From: "Kram Llens" <kram_llens@rmit.edu.au>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 09:33:23 EST-10
Subject: Re: Light-level bit list?
> Is there any such animal out there? No matter how many editors I
> go through, not one of them gets all the light-level bits right.
>
> Nek
>
i used the line def list from Doom II 1.666 which is also Doom I
1.666, which was posted here by John Romero
Kram
Kram_Llens@rmit.edu.au RMIT, Melbourne, Australia
Ph (03) 660 5378 Fax (03) 660 5342
"I bought some dehydrated water, but I don't
know what to add to it" -Steven Wright
------------------------------
From: Nekraath <nek@starbase.neosoft.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 21:52:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Light-level bit list?
> i used the line def list from Doom II 1.666 which is also Doom I
> 1.666, which was posted here by John Romero
>
> Kram
Ack! I knew I signed up too late. :P Any tips on where I can
get hold of this list w/o asking for a repost??
Thanx for the info,
Nek
------------------------------
From: hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca (Enigma)
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 1994 21:53:36 -0800
Subject: Re: Policy at ORST
>While I'm still in the mood to post, does anyone know what the
>policy is concerning the moving of files out of the 'incoming'
>directory on the new "official" Doom ftp site? It seems as though
>you can never get any newstuff and when you try to ftp out of the
>incoming directory, you get a permission denied error. I've
>tried the mirror sites, but they don't seem to be mirroring
>everyday?
I suppose you could try the incoming of some of the mirrors. I've had
success at wup.edu d'ling from the incoming directory (it's not write-only).
Really though, what's the point of having a writeonly directory anyhow?
- ------------------------66------------------------------------99GO
* Doom Rules //||// enigma <hsimpson@unixg.ubc.ca> ||CA
* Power Rangers Rock /||/ ||NU
* Punk is dead... //||// "640KB is more than enough..." ||CK
- ------------------------99------------------------------------66S!
------------------------------
From: cgasparo@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 00:47:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Policy at ORST
>>While I'm still in the mood to post, does anyone know what the
>>policy is concerning the moving of files out of the 'incoming'
>>directory on the new "official" Doom ftp site? It seems as though
>>you can never get any newstuff and when you try to ftp out of the
>>incoming directory, you get a permission denied error. I've
>>tried the mirror sites, but they don't seem to be mirroring
>>everyday?
>
>I suppose you could try the incoming of some of the mirrors. I've had
>success at wup.edu d'ling from the incoming directory (it's not write-only).
>Really though, what's the point of having a writeonly directory anyhow?
Ahh... some losers were uploading doom disks and forbidden.wad (the
illegal disney sound wad) and they got antsy that they would lose thier
support from id. Id might have even put some pressure on them. I know
not.
Steve H.B.
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 94 11:27:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Policy at ORST
>>>While I'm still in the mood to post, does anyone know what the
>>>policy is concerning the moving of files out of the 'incoming'
>>>directory on the new "official" Doom ftp site? It seems as though
>>>you can never get any newstuff and when you try to ftp out of the
>>>incoming directory, you get a permission denied error. I've
>>>tried the mirror sites, but they don't seem to be mirroring
>>>everyday?
>>
>>I suppose you could try the incoming of some of the mirrors. I've had
>>success at wup.edu d'ling from the incoming directory (it's not write-only).
>>Really though, what's the point of having a writeonly directory anyhow?
>
incoming is write-only in an attempt to prevent deletions from outside: if
you can't read what's there, you won't know what to delete, will you?
incoming is copied periodically to NEWSTUFF (I don't know how often) but
the whole thing is in a state of flux anyway: wait til the site stabilises
somewhere (Walnut Creek, words has it) - it'll probably be better
maintained then. Patience, guys, patience.
- -Steve
------------------------------
From: S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk (Steve Benner)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 94 12:26:54 GMT
Subject: Editor comparisons
"J. Andrew Scherrer" <jas3@rsrch1.cit.cornell.edu> wrote:
>well, why doesn't someone turn this flame war into something more useful,
>and do an objective comparison/contrast sort of summary of them; i.e.,
>glean the flame posts for the arguments, consolidate them, and present
>them in a clear format for purposes of helping someone make an informed
>choice if they're just starting to edit.
>
Good idea, bothrops! My WWW pages currently have gaps for just this very
purpose. If the authors of the various editors would like to mail me with
a list of features of their latest babies, I'll stick it all up on the Web.
Doom-gate's all well and good but it's pretty out of date and has no
comparitive material at all. I don't want any material slagging off the
opposition, just a factual list of features. If any users out there want
to mail me [ME, I said, NOT the list. Check your TO: field before sending.
DON'T JUST USE REPLY! I SAID DON'T USE REPLY...... (Sorry to have to say
that: some people don't seem to have much of a clue how to use their
mailers... just you wait and see how many replies to this land on the list.
bet'ya.) Sorry - where was I?] with details of their fave editor (and why
they like it) I'll consider putting that info up too. Same rules apply
though: stick to facts and no slagging off the others, OK? Same goes for
any DOOM editing utilities as well, I suppose.
Mail your info to S.Benner@lancaster.ac.uk. Prefix your message subject
with WU: to have me spot it sooner. Thanks.
- -Steve
- -Author "The Wadster's Guide" http://cres1.lancs.ac.uk/~esasb1/doom/index.html
------------------------------
From: Chainsaw Jim <jimu@point.cs.uwm.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 08:16:25 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3 again
> Could someone, on the DEU team or all-knowing, please give us a list of
> features that will be in 5.3, and that will have to wait for 6.0? These are
> the ones that I can think of :
...
> No more opening text-mode thing
Are they really going to eliminate this??? I found the text interface
EXTREAMLY useful for batch file processing. I just redirected a deu
command file into stdin.
------------------------------
From: Robert Forsman <thoth@cis.ufl.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 10:20:35 EST
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3 again
Chainsaw Jim <jimu@point.cs.uwm.edu> ,in message <199411211416.IAA05141@point.c
s.uwm.edu>, wrote:
> Are they really going to eliminate this??? I found the text interface
> EXTREAMLY useful for batch file processing. I just redirected a deu
> command file into stdin.
HAHA! GUI strikes again. Don't you just hate it when computers demand
your attention? That's why I hate Macs.
Perhaps they should add the TCL interpreter. Maybe I'll do that (but not
for the first release).
------------------------------
From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 94 9:31:35 CST
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3 again
> > Could someone, on the DEU team or all-knowing, please give us a list of
> > features that will be in 5.3, and that will have to wait for 6.0? These are
> > the ones that I can think of :
>
> ...
> > No more opening text-mode thing
>
> Are they really going to eliminate this??? I found the text interface
> EXTREAMLY useful for batch file processing. I just redirected a deu
> command file into stdin.
Perhaps we'll let DEU 6.0 load in a startup file instruction set. But it'll
be a while before anything happens to that interface, so just relax. :)
- -Ted
- --
Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
------------------------------
From: quinet@stud.montefiore.ulg.ac.be (Raphael Quinet)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 16:24:06 +0100
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3
> From doom-editing-owner@nvg.unit.no Sun Nov 20 19:13:48 1994
> From: Jon Davey <jond@hpbs114.boi.hp.com>
> Subject: Re: DEU 5.3
> To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
> Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 10:48:55 MST
> In-Reply-To: <199411201609.LAA26968@aviator.cis.ufl.edu>; from "Robert Forsman" at Nov 20, 94 11:09 am
> Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]
> Sender: owner-doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
> Precedence: bulk
> Reply-To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
>
> > What I don't understand is why someone hasn't taken a day off and just
> > released a 5.22 that had new tables and grokked MAP%02d. Didn't someone
> > release a "pirate" deu that did just that?
> >
> Why hasn't anybody asked the obvious question?
>
> Why didn't Raphael and the Deu Team release an "official" modified
> version of Deu5.21 when Doom II came out? It could have been called
> 5.22 as Robert suggested. I read a post recently in A.G.D. in which
> Raphael stated that when Doom II came out, he modified Deu5.21 in just
> five minutes so it could read the Doom II wad file. His post was
> in direct response to all the questions and discussion being directed
> towards the DEU2 hack.
>
> If it only took Raphael five minutes to modify his code for Doom II,
> then another 5 minutes to ftp it to Infant2 at the time, we wouldn't
> have to wade through all these "where is DEU5.3 and DEU2" talk.
>
> >From what Ted has been saying, it sounds like Raphael gets 90 new
> email messages a day asking where DEU5.3 is and this keeps him from
> working on the program. Well, how about releasing a modified version
> to work with Doom II and then the wait for DEU5.3 will be much
> less painful.
>
> Then we can start talking about level editing and Deu again.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Jon
> (A happy Deu5.21 user)
>
> --
> ---
> ----
> ----- jon davey ----- email: jond@hpbs114.boi.hp.com -----
> ----
> ---
> --
>
>
------------------------------
From: quinet@stud.montefiore.ulg.ac.be (Raphael Quinet)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 17:39:01 +0100
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3
Sorry for the previous message which quoted another message but
contained no new text. My session crashed while I was editing the
reply and the message was sent (without my editing). I will re-write
the message and send it as soon as my network connection is stable
again.
Sorry,
- -Raphael
------------------------------
From: elmedia <elmed13@und.ida.liu.se>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 94 17:49:15 +0100
Subject: Re: DoomCAD 5.0
You were asking for somebody with Net access and using DoomCad, well here I am.
Could you please e-mail me DoomCAD 5.0 and I will post it to various ftp sites.
P.S. my address is elmed13@und.liu.se
Thanks!
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: quinet@stud.montefiore.ulg.ac.be (Raphael Quinet)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 18:09:26 +0100
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3
[...well, I won't quote the whole message again...]
>
> If it only took Raphael five minutes to modify his code for Doom II,
> then another 5 minutes to ftp it to Infant2 at the time, we wouldn't
> have to wade through all these "where is DEU5.3 and DEU2" talk.
>
> >From what Ted has been saying, it sounds like Raphael gets 90 new
> email messages a day asking where DEU5.3 is and this keeps him from
> working on the program. Well, how about releasing a modified version
> to work with Doom II and then the wait for DEU5.3 will be much
> less painful.
Well, let me explain why I did not release the patch:
Modifying DEU for Doom II was easy: I worked on DEU for a few minutes,
then it was able to load and save maps for Doom II. Later I added the
new Things, LineDefs, etc. from John Romero's list. Fine. It worked.
But then I received a reminder from Id Software, saying that no editor
or tool should work with the shareware version of Doom. I already
knew this, but they sent this reminder because they beleive that only
1% of the people who play Doom actually paid for it and they don't
want to have editors encouraging piracy (or non-registration of
shareware programs). And I tought about it: the pieces of the code
that I had to change for Doom II were nearly the same as the ones that
would have to be changed if a pirate wanted to release a version of
DEU working with the shareware Doom. So I decided not to release the
patches, because it would have been too easy (even for a newbie) to
"misuse" them.
I decided that I would only release DEU 5.3 (and no 5.22), because
lots of things have changed in the new code, making a diff impossible.
I tought it was not going to be a problem, because if things went as
planned, DEU would be ready for release soon after Oct 10th. Alas,
5.3 was delayed for various reasons: first I had to wait for patches
from the other developpers, then I had too much work to do for my
regular job. And now people are waiting and complaining and asking
lots of questions... (now I spend at least twice as much time replying
to questions about DEU 5.3 or "DEU-II" than working on the code itself).
Since last week, I am able to spend more time on DEU (more than 10
minutes every now and then...) and I'm getting ready for a first beta
version. Don't worry: the "official" DEU 5.3 will be released after
four days of beta-testing (if no major bugs are found). I will
announce it first on this mailing list, then I will post a message on
the Doom newsgroups as soon as it is ready.
- -Raphael
------------------------------
From: David York Kurtz <dkurtz@bigcat.missouri.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 11:39:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Policy at ORST
On Sun, 20 Nov 1994, Jon Davey wrote:
> While I'm still in the mood to post, does anyone know what the
> policy is concerning the moving of files out of the 'incoming'
> directory on the new "official" Doom ftp site? It seems as though
> you can never get any newstuff and when you try to ftp out of the
> incoming directory, you get a permission denied error. I've
> tried the mirror sites, but they don't seem to be mirroring
> everyday?
No It's not just you... As far as I know, the files in
/incoming have only been moved once since infant2 relocated to that
site.. I suppose that no one has been set up as caretaker of it yet..
Lame...
-Dave
------------------------------
From: quinet@stud.montefiore.ulg.ac.be (Raphael Quinet)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 18:42:38 +0100
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3 again
> From doom-editing-owner@nvg.unit.no Mon Nov 21 02:02:39 1994
> From: tedv@geom.umn.edu
> Subject: Re: DEU 5.3 again
> To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
> Date: Sun, 20 Nov 94 18:45:02 CST
> In-Reply-To: <m0r9MHl-0000JlC@lute.GCR.COM>; from "Brent Metz" at Nov 20, 94 7:07 pm
> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
> Sender: owner-doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
> Precedence: bulk
> Reply-To: doom-editing@nvg.unit.no
>
> > Could someone, on the DEU team or all-knowing, please give us a list of
> > features that will be in 5.3, and that will have to wait for 6.0? These are
> > the ones that I can think of :
>
> > Doom 1 & 2 editing
> Status: UNKNOWN
>
> > Printing
> Status: DONE
>
> > Improved interface(from the screen shots)
> Status: ALMOST DONE
>
> > Dialog Boxes
> Status: DONE
>
> > Texture viewing without switching video modes
> Status: DONE
>
> > 3D Preview Mode (I REALLY want to know about this)
> Status: UNKNOWN (sorry)
>
> > No more opening text-mode thing
> This will not be in 5.3 as far as I know. 6.0 will be pure graphics though.
>
> > Ports to Windows, OS/2, and X-Windows
> Windows: UNKNOWN
> OS/2: UNKNOWN
> X: IN PROGRESS
> As far as I know... Some guy out of the blue presented Raphael with a
> version of DEU 5.21 that was ported to SGI X. I don't think he was part
> of the DEU crew (though he might have been). He is now though. :P He's
> working on making sure it runs under Linux and porting the 5.3 Alpha to
> X. I don't know for sure, but I think it'll run under Sun X. Hell,
> DOOM won't even run on a Sun! :)
>
> (Actually... If you log into linux or an sgi, you can set your display to
> the sun machine you are on and play at a somewhat slow rate. But we'll
> ignore that for now.)
>
> > I haven't heard about it, but I'd like to know: will DEU 5.3 or 6.0 have
> > sound editing features? By this, I mean : If I had a Sound Blaster, could I
> > record/playback sounds within DEU? Also, are there any plans of adding
> > DeHackEd-like features to DEU? DEU is a very good freeware product, and
> > the effort put into it alone makes it deserve to win the ongoing
> > "my-editor-is-better-than-yours" wars.
>
> I have heard rumors that there will be a way to load in sounds into patch
> wads like dmaud. I have no idea how complex this will be. Someone has
> also tried to do GIF import/export code. No idea if this will actually
> be working at the time of DEU 5.3 release.
>
> > P.S.: DEU *IS* better than yours. :)
>
> Is, and will be. :) But I'd rather stop talking and start working.
>
> -Ted
> --
> Ted Vessenes | "The only force stronger than fate is dramatic irony."
> tedv@geom.umn.edu | "[William] Shatner couldn't direct his way out of the
> tedv@cs.umn.edu | bathroom with both hands and a map!"
> tjvessen@midway.uchicago.edu -Ryan Ingram (1st), -Kibo's .sig (2nd)
>
------------------------------
From: quinet@stud.montefiore.ulg.ac.be (Raphael Quinet)
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 20:20:25 +0100
Subject: Re: DEU 5.3 again
I'm really sorry. Once again, my session crashed (the X Window server
dumped core) while I was editing a reply. As a result, the message
was sent without any editing and you probably received a long quoted
text without any new comments. I hope it won't happen again...
> > Could someone, on the DEU team or all-knowing, please give us a list of
> > features that will be in 5.3, and that will have to wait for 6.0? These are
> > the ones that I can think of :
>
> > Doom 1 & 2 editing
> Status: UNKNOWN
Status: DONE!
> > Printing
> Status: DONE
>
> > Improved interface(from the screen shots)
> Status: ALMOST DONE
>
> > Dialog Boxes
> Status: DONE
>
> > Texture viewing without switching video modes
> Status: DONE
It was already done in 5.1, 5.2 and 5.21! But you have to use one of the
extended video modes in order to be able to do this: it will only work if
you are using a 256 color mode, such as 640x480x256, 800x600x256 or
1024x768x256. If you are using the default 640x480x16 (video mode 0),
DEU will switch to 320x200 to get 256 colors.
>> > 3D Preview Mode (I REALLY want to know about this)
> Status: UNKNOWN (sorry)
>
Status: NOT READY FOR RELEASE
I have a 3D preview engine wich works with solid walls (no textures). It
will not be released with DEU 5.3 because it is too slow and the code is a
mess (and contains a few bugs). I am trying to add the textures on the
walls but this doesn't work yet. Anyway, if you want me to include a
working 3D previewer in DEU 5.3, you probably won't see DEU before next year.
So I will release 5.3 as soon as possible without this code, then I will
see what can be done. A 3D mode with solid walls is fun, but not very
useful if you want to check the textures, etc. So you will have to wait.
> > No more opening text-mode thing
> This will not be in 5.3 as far as I know. 6.0 will be pure graphics though.
>
I am keeping the text interface in 5.3 because I like to use DEU in batch
files. Especially for including or extracting sound and images in a PWAD
(with the new filters in 5.3). I will think about some scripting language
for 6.0, or a backward-compatibility with the command-line interface.
Ted was right: DEU 6.0 will be pure graphics.
> > Ports to Windows, OS/2, and X-Windows
> Windows: UNKNOWN
> OS/2: UNKNOWN
As far as I know, this one is IN PROGRESS.
> X: IN PROGRESS
[...]
This one is nearly DONE. Currently, a version of DEU 5.21 (support for
Doom II) works well on my Sun Sparc10. Much faster than any PC version, of
course. And the window can be resized at will. There are still a few
bugs, but this version is nearly ready for release.
[...]
> I have heard rumors that there will be a way to load in sounds into patch
> wads like dmaud. I have no idea how complex this will be. Someone has
> also tried to do GIF import/export code. No idea if this will actually
> be working at the time of DEU 5.3 release.
>
These import/export filters will hopefully be ready for 5.3. You will be
able to Import or eXport a GIF, WAV or MIDI file with automatic conversion.
But you will have to know the name of the texture/sounds/music object in
the main WAD directory if you want it to take effect (i.e. if you import a
WAD file into SARGA1 or a GIF into DSPISTOL, you will get strange results).
This part of the code is not ready yet.
Some other new features will make editing much easier. Wait and see...
- -Raphael
------------------------------
From: cgasparo@cymbal.aix.calpoly.edu
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 11:20:08 -0800
Subject: Re: Policy at ORST
>On Sun, 20 Nov 1994, Jon Davey wrote:
>
>> While I'm still in the mood to post, does anyone know what the
>> policy is concerning the moving of files out of the 'incoming'
>> directory on the new "official" Doom ftp site? It seems as though
>> you can never get any newstuff and when you try to ftp out of the
>> incoming directory, you get a permission denied error. I've
>> tried the mirror sites, but they don't seem to be mirroring
>> everyday?
>
> No It's not just you... As far as I know, the files in
>/incoming have only been moved once since infant2 relocated to that
>site.. I suppose that no one has been set up as caretaker of it yet..
> Lame...
> -Dave
Not only have they only moved once, but they didn't even go through
them. They just moved *every* file, including all the move_this_stuff
files and damaged uploads with thier messages to delete them.
Steve H.B.
------------------------------
End of doom-editing-digest V1 #62
*********************************
