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The Avalyn Digest Volume 1 Issue 17
The Avalyn Digest Wed Dec 11, 1996 Volume 1 : Issue 17
There are 33 messages totalling 721 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Slowdive reissues (2)
2. more blueday questions (5)
3. I AM THE ELEPHANT
4. blue day owners raise your hands
5. whoops
6. Holding Our Breath/Morningrise (8)
7. Slowdive eps
8. technique (7)
9. Guitars vs keyboards (3)
10. reverb and equipment (3)
11. Guitar wankers! Yeah, YOU!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 96 17:14:45 -0500
From: Jeff Birgbauer <jeff@dreamspace.com>
Subject: Re: Slowdive reissues
Michael Peter Stein:
> (Creation's a money hungry corporate piece of crap now, they'll do anything
> for a few extra quid).
I STRONGLY disagree. Their reissue campaign is just to make this great
music available again. They don't need to make BRONZE (pennies) when
they've already made GOLD (millions) with OASIS. I'll bet Good old Alan
McGee could retire on what he's made with them ALONE!
"shine like stars"...Jeff
--------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 19:57:48 -0500
From: larry@interlog.com (superbacana)
Subject: Re: Slowdive reissues
>I know for sure that the first 2 Slowdive EPs have been reissued (Creation's
>a money hungry corporate piece of crap now, they'll do anything for a few
>extra quid).
There's a couple of interviews with Alan McGee out now in various UK music
magazines. Interesting how he doesn't even mention MBV, let alone Slowdive.
I guess with Oasis providing steady (?) income, he's decided he can afford
to ditch bands like Slowdive, Swervedriver, the Telescopes, etc.
----------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 1996 19:57:18 -0500
From: larry@interlog.com (superbacana)
Subject: Re: more blueday questions
>> On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Aaron Thorne <fearless@u.washington.edu> wrote about
>> more blueday questions:
>...snip...
>> The original CD was released in Scandinavia, Benelux, France and Japan
>> only. (It is time for me to update the discography, I know, though
>> it's all in there now..)
>>
>> > It was then stuck in with the first 2000 (?) copies of Souvlaki.
>>
>> No, only the first 1000 copies even. And it was available in both
>> the UK and the US, so perhaps only 500 copies reached each country?
>
>Okay, I have a question here. I am fairly sure Souvlaki didn't come
>out domestic in the US until well after the UK release (months at
>least). So what did they do, hold back 500 copies of Blue Day?
No. Copies of Souvlaki were available as imports in North America at almost
the same time it came out in the UK. Of those, a number were the 2-disc
versions with Blue Day. The 2-disc version was never a domestic release.
Slowdive did tour North America the summer that Souvlaki was released, even
though the album wasn't officially available until the following spring or
so, when they gave it the ugly new cover and the stupid mini-poster and
added the songs that didn't fit in.
Larry
----------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:13:50 -0500
From: Moonstar9@aol.com
Subject: Re: more blueday questions
i think that all the songs on the domestic souvlaki fit together
perfectly...i like the cover too
JAred
----------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 20:57:54 +0100 (MET)
From: dcay@rockland.net
Subject: I AM THE ELEPHANT
Did anybody buy "i am the elephant u r the mouse" yet? How was it?
Barbara
-------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 15:31:35 -0500
From: mdwalbur@student.berklee.edu (Matt Walburn/Summer Holiday)
Subject: Re: more blueday questions
>>> On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Aaron Thorne <fearless@u.washington.edu> wrote about
>>> more blueday questions:
>>...snip...
>>> The original CD was released in Scandinavia, Benelux, France and Japan
>>> only. (It is time for me to update the discography, I know, though
>>> it's all in there now..)
>>>
>>> > It was then stuck in with the first 2000 (?) copies of Souvlaki.
>>>
>>> No, only the first 1000 copies even. And it was available in both
>>> the UK and the US, so perhaps only 500 copies reached each country?
>>
>>Okay, I have a question here. I am fairly sure Souvlaki didn't come
>>out domestic in the US until well after the UK release (months at
>>least). So what did they do, hold back 500 copies of Blue Day?
>
>No. Copies of Souvlaki were available as imports in North America at almost
>the same time it came out in the UK. Of those, a number were the 2-disc
>versions with Blue Day. The 2-disc version was never a domestic release.
>
>Slowdive did tour North America the summer that Souvlaki was released, even
>though the album wasn't officially available until the following spring or
>so, when they gave it the ugly new cover and the stupid mini-poster and
>added the songs that didn't fit in.
That tour was with Catherine WHeel then they did their own tour. They also
toured the US in 92 with Ride for the Going Blank Again Tour.
--------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 07:57:52 -0500
From: Nikolpez@aol.com
Subject: Re: blue day owners raise your hands
yeah i have this on cd, came with special edition of souvlaki and man oh man
was i surprised as shit to find it when i did...at a very small store in the
middle of nowhere!
i have to say the morningrise ep is probably one of my favorites
though....golden hair is such a great song!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 1996 08:19:28 -0500
From: Nikolpez@aol.com
Subject: whoops
i meant the holding our breath ep
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 10:15:57 -0800
From: "Public Macintosh, Yale" <user@server1.minerva.yale.edu>
Subject: Holding Our Breath/Morningrise
what up-
I've seen copies of Holding Our Breath and Morningrise for 9.99
new in my local record store over the past year. I've not seen
the first EP however.
I've found the first 3 eps in the used bin years ago for 4 bucks apiece,
but Slowdive and Morningrise had their cardboard sleeves split in two in
order to fit them into regular jewel cases!
Do any of the original pressings of Blue Day (UK/Japan) have
lyric sheets or cool band pictures in the sleeve? I think my
friend said once that the translations in the Japan version
were hilariously inaccurate...
Did Slowdive use any keyboards to get that sound? What sorts of
gear did they use?
Flava
--------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 12:47:09 -0500
From: larry@interlog.com (superbacana)
Subject: Re: Holding Our Breath/Morningrise
> Did Slowdive use any keyboards to get that sound? What sorts of
> gear did they use?
Neil apparently used a Mellotron somewhere, but the band's trademark sound
is all guitar. It's funny how people hear Slowdive and say "Ahh, it's all
done with keyboards" (with that tone that implies using keyboards is
"cheating" and doesn't involve musicianship). I never saw any keyboards on
stage when they played.
As for gear...well, various delay, chorus and fuzz pedals, some reverb
processors...I get the impression that Neil wasn't too keen on giving away
his secrets to getting his sound.
-------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 19:28:55 -0500
From: avalyn@chesco.com
Subject: Re: more blueday questions
At 08:13 PM 12/6/96 -0500, you wrote:
>i think that all the songs on the domestic souvlaki fit together
>perfectly...i like the cover too
>
> JAred
No way I think the addition of those songs was really dumb. The 5ep is more
ambient sounding and while it's not the complete opposite of Souvlaki it
just shouldn't be there. I commented on it to the band and they agreed.
They hated SBK. Oh and i thought the cover and the actual cd were pretty
ugly.
bye ryan
-----------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 13:21:41 +0000
From: Patricia Casault <PAT@ormroyde.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Slowdive eps
I suggest you all have a look at Action Records' web site (especially
those in the uk since the company is located in Lancashire)
They still have copies of the Beach Song flexi, quite a few eps as well
of all the albums.
And it's CHEAP.
http://www.action-records.co.uk
-------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 09:54:42 EST5EDT
From: jbrown@bgs.com
Subject: Re: Holding Our Breath/Morningrise
> Did Slowdive use any keyboards to get that sound? What sorts of
> gear did they use?
when i saw them, they were using tons and tons of floor petals to
generate the sound. one guy stood with his back to the audience a
good portion of the show and just generated all sorts of crazy
feedback from his guitar and the stacked speakers that surrounded
him.
it was nothing short of amazing.
----------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 09:57:47 EST5EDT
From: jbrown@bgs.com
Subject: technique
>> Did Slowdive use any keyboards to get that sound? What sorts
>> of gear did they use?
>
> when i saw them, they were using tons and tons of floor petals
> to generate the sound. one guy stood with his back to the
> audience a good portion of the show and just generated all
> sorts of crazy feedback from his guitar and the stacked
> speakers that surrounded him.
>
> it was nothing short of amazing.
and i agree with superbanca. using keyboards, in my opinion, isn't
*cheating* per se, but it's a lot more impressive that slowdive
always did it live with only guitars...
---------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 10:37:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Wade A Settle <wsettle@runet.edu>
Subject: technique
I have pretty much figured out how to duplicate the Slowdive sound, so
if anyone wants to try it......
Neil supposedly used a Korg m-3 guitar processor (which is hard to find
these days) Basically it's all chorus pedals, and double delay pedals with
lots and lots of reverb, and sometimes a slide guitar. Souvlaki did have
some keyboards though kids!!! Read the liner notes, Ed Bueller flanged
everything, and some other dude arranged the keyboard treatments.
anyhow, just thought some of you would like to know.
-------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 11:23:35 -0400
From: illoyd@intrlink.com (Ian Lloyd)
Subject: Re: technique
> Souvlaki did have some keyboards though kids!!! Read the liner notes,
> Ed Bueller flanged everything, and some other dude arranged the keyboard
> treatments.
Uhhh... 'scuse me, but "some other dude"? That'd be Brian Eno... Slowdive
credit him as a major influence (as do every other ambientnoiserock band
around) and with good reason. The track on the Oslo tape before they start
playing? Eno. "Blue Day"? Eno. .....
Sorry, not to sound grumpy, just thought I should point that out...
Ian///Shake
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 00:08:18 +0100 (MET)
From: chief@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: Holding Our Breath/Morningrise
On: Sun, 08 Dec 1996, <user@server1.minerva.yale.edu> wrote about:
Holding Our Breath/Morningrise:
> Do any of the original pressings of Blue Day (UK/Japan) have
> lyric sheets or cool band pictures in the sleeve? I think my
> friend said once that the translations in the Japan version
> were hilariously inaccurate...
You know, I saw a music program on the telly about this - where
they interviewed a couple of Japanese music fans who said that
they have to translate the lyrics with "corrections" (!) to fit
the Japanese language, or nothing will make sense to them. The
guys doing the show had found a couple of examples that were,
yes, extremely funny, though I can't remember which ones they
were.
//Erik (chief@lysator.liu.se)
-------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 21:25:10 -0500
From: larry@interlog.com (superbacana)
Subject: Re: technique
> I have pretty much figured out how to duplicate the Slowdive sound, so
> if anyone wants to try it...... Neil supposedly used a Korg m-3 guitar
> processor(which is hard to find these days) Basically it's all chorus
> pedals, and double delay pedals
Specifically a Digitech Echo+Plus 16 sec delay/sampler pedal. Details of the
other stuff are kind of sketchy
> with lots and lots of reverb, and sometimes a slide guitar. Souvlaki did
> have some keyboards though kids!!! Read the liner notes, Ed Bueller flanged
> everything, and some other dude arranged the keyboard treatments.
Some other dude, eh?
-----------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 21:25:03 -0500
From: larry@interlog.com (superbacana)
Subject: Re: Holding Our Breath/Morningrise
>> Did Slowdive use any keyboards to get that sound? What sorts of
>> gear did they use?
>
> when i saw them, they were using tons and tons of floor petals to
> generate the sound. one guy stood with his back to the audience a
> good portion of the show and just generated all sorts of crazy
> feedback from his guitar and the stacked speakers that surrounded
> him.
The last time I saw them, they had all the amps in a big pile, stage left,
and then behind that you could tell there was stuff hidden under some
sheets. I've heard that Neil kept stuff back there so not everyone could see
what he was using, but it was probably rack stuff that the roadies adjusted
for each song rather than keyboards.
--------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 21:25:15 -0500
From: larry@interlog.com (superbacana)
Subject: Re: Holding Our Breath/Morningrise
>> Do any of the original pressings of Blue Day (UK/Japan) have
>> lyric sheets or cool band pictures in the sleeve? I think my
>> friend said once that the translations in the Japan version
>> were hilariously inaccurate...
>
> You know, I saw a music program on the telly about this - where
> they interviewed a couple of Japanese music fans who said that
> they have to translate the lyrics with "corrections" (!) to fit
> the Japanese language, or nothing will make sense to them. The
> guys doing the show had found a couple of examples that were,
> yes, extremely funny, though I can't remember which ones they
> were.
There's two different things that happen to albums in Japan. First, they
usually want lyric sheets in English, but since those aren't always
available, the record companies there transcribe them and sometimes have to
guess at the words (the transcriptions of Cocteau Twins songs are pretty
hilarious in that way). Second, the words are often translated into
Japanese, but adjusted so they mean more or less the same thing but phrased
differently - the same way that Japanese translated literally into English
often doesn't make sense, so you have to alter it a little.
The funny part comes when you translate the Japanese translations back into
English - same thing with dubbed movies.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 23:53:06 -0800
From: Viet <avle@slip.net>
Subject: Re: Holding Our Breath/Morningrise
Public Macintosh, Yale wrote:
> Did Slowdive use any keyboards to get that sound? What sorts of
> gear did they use?
As far as I know, they did not use keyboards in the studio, and
definitely did not use them live. It's basically guitars with alot of
reverb. I'm not sure exactly what brands of equipment they used, except
for some roland JC 120's and a telecaster here or there.
-Viet
--------------------------------
Date: 10 Dec 96 06:37:40 EST
From: Mo Holkar / UKG <100745.3625@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Holding Our Breath/Morningrise
>The funny part comes when you translate the Japanese translations back into
>English - same thing with dubbed movies.
The classic example of this is 'out of sight, out of mind' into Japanese and
then back comes out as 'invisible lunatic'.
Mo
----------------------------------
Date: 10 Dec 96 06:37:37 EST
From: Mo Holkar / UKG <100745.3625@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Guitars vs keyboards
This is a bit of an artificial distinction in some ways. The idea that guitars
are more 'musicianly' or 'pure' is really out of date. If you fit a hex pickup
to your guitar you can do _exactly_ the same things with it as you can with a
keyboard. A good illustration is Dubstar, who from their sound most people would
probably think of as a synth band but in fact make all those twiddly and swoopy
noises from a guitar.
Mo
----------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 07:15:44 -0400
From: illoyd@intrlink.com (Ian Lloyd)
Subject: Re: technique
>> Neil supposedly used a Korg m-3 guitar processor(which is hard to find
>> these days) Basically it's all chorus pedals, and double delay pedals
>
>Specifically a Digitech Echo+Plus 16 sec delay/sampler pedal. Details of the
>other stuff are kind of sketchy
Things I've seen: Neil Rachel and Christian all with packed pedal boards...
Boss Compressor/Sustainer, Chorus, Flange, Delay and Tremolo pedals. In
addition, each of them had a rack full of fx too. They don't use e-bow's
for that signature "endless sustain". Mesa/Boogie amps, usually run in
stereo configurations.
Thing's I've heard: My friend Jason spoke with Christian prior to their
next-to-last ever show in Toronto and asked him about their effects. He
replied "Lots and lots of reverb...."
Personally: I've gotten great results from a similar Boss setup + a reverb
into my Boogie. Also, the Digitech ValveFX processor can get really close
all by itself (scary).
As for keyboards, Slowdive weren't using any keys (played, triggered,
guitar-MIDI'd, or otherwise) either time I saw them or at the above
mentioned Toronto show. Of course, in the wash of guitar ecstacy, you'd
never have heard them anyway....
Ian///Shake
----------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:09:59 -0500 (EST)
From: conspiracy? <bpadrian@iupui.edu>
Subject: Re: technique
> Things I've seen: Neil Rachel and Christian all with packed pedal boards...
> Boss Compressor/Sustainer, Chorus, Flange, Delay and Tremolo pedals. In
> addition, each of them had a rack full of fx too. They don't use e-bow's
> for that signature "endless sustain". Mesa/Boogie amps, usually run in
> stereo configurations.
>
> Thing's I've heard: My friend Jason spoke with Christian prior to their
> next-to-last ever show in Toronto and asked him about their effects. He
> replied "Lots and lots of reverb...."
>
> Personally: I've gotten great results from a similar Boss setup + a reverb
> into my Boogie. Also, the Digitech ValveFX processor can get really close
> all by itself (scary).
Now everyone knows why I have one. the thing really sounds great (valve
FX). It's all over our last recording, and will be all over our new
recordings. And to think, I record DIRECT with it!!!
I actually wrote a patch called "slowdive oct" that has lots of reverb
and on-tempo delay, but also the ability to pitch shft an octave down
and mix it with the "normal" signal. Plus the tube distortion is really
rich.
Basicallyit's the following:
Comp-Dist-Eq-Noise gate (a touch)-Pitch shift-Delay-reverb.
later all.
Ian, the tape should be sent out today, I'm going to the post office over
lunch.
----------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 10:16:42 EST5EDT
From: jbrown@bgs.com
Subject: Re: technique
>"Sleep: A necessary, seductive evil." me
what a beautiful line.
i love this.
(and also the technical expertise of your posting...!)
jeff
-----------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 14:32:15 -0500 (EST)
From: grilledcheese <hotrod@grove.ufl.EDU>
Subject: Re: more blueday questions
> No way I think the addition of those songs was really dumb. The 5ep is more
> ambient sounding and while it's not the complete opposite of Souvlaki it
> just shouldn't be there. I commented on it to the band and they agreed.
> They hated SBK. Oh and i thought the cover and the actual cd were pretty
> ugly.
yeah, maybe they don't fit but im realy glad that their there. i STILL
haven't found the 5 ep , so thats the only place i have those songs. i
can't count the numer of times i put in souvlaki and skipped righ to the
end. if you don't think they fit, then just don't listen to it straight
thru!
mike
---------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 11:49:53 -0800
From: Viet <avle@slip.net>
Subject: reverb and equipment
Ian Lloyd wrote:
> Personally: I've gotten great results from a similar Boss setup + a reverb
> into my Boogie. Also, the Digitech ValveFX processor can get really close
> all by itself (scary).
Interesting about the valveFX, but to my understanding you can pretty
much get this result from any reverb, fully wet with a long reverb time.
So while we are on the topic of equipment, we have a note from Rachel
(or maybe her publicistsaying that Neil and Rachel used JC 120's and
Christian used some sort of Fender (not a twin). Processors include
Alesis Quadraverb, some Yamaha, as well as alot of pedals as we all
know.
Does anyone remember Rachel's guitar with the Ren and Stimpy stickers on
it?
-Viet
-------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:06:44 -0500 (EST)
From: conspiracy? <bpadrian@iupui.edu>
Subject: Re: reverb and equipment
> Interesting about the valveFX, but to my understanding you can pretty
> much get this result from any reverb, fully wet with a long reverb time.
yep, actually, my sound is more slowdive when it take the output from my
valve fx (in stereo) and run it into my band's digitech dsp-128+, add a
bunch more verb, and then out to the powere amp in stereo.
Good
----------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:17:06 -0500 (EST)
From: grilledcheese <hotrod@grove.ufl.EDU>
Subject: Re: Guitars vs keyboards
On 10 Dec 1996, Mo Holkar / UKG wrote:
> This is a bit of an artificial distinction in some ways. The idea that guitars
> are more 'musicianly' or 'pure' is really out of date. If you fit a hex pickup
> to your guitar you can do _exactly_ the same things with it as you can with a
> keyboard.
the actuall SOUNDS are more "warm" but not pure, actually the
opposite. synth sounds are pure, guitar signals are more jumbled. for
example every time you strum the waves get abruply restarted. a synth
makes perfect, repeating waveforms. when the imperfect, jumbled signal of
a guitar is put thru reverb then magical things happen, for example the
slowdive sound. i believe guitar is an ideal source to sample if you must
use keyboards. something id like to try is this: make wonderful guitar
textures, sample them, but instead of playing the sounds on a sampler's
keyboard or being sequenced, trigger the sounds with a guitar midi
controller.
----------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 13:13:15 -0700
From: Mitch Bacigalupi <mitch@tickets.stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: reverb and equipment
>Ian Lloyd wrote:
>>
>> Personally: I've gotten great results from a similar Boss setup + a reverb
>> into my Boogie. Also, the Digitech ValveFX processor can get really close
>> all by itself (scary).
>>
>
>Interesting about the valveFX, but to my understanding you can pretty
>much get this result from any reverb, fully wet with a long reverb time.
>
>So while we are on the topic of equipment, we have a note from Rachel
>(or maybe her publicistsaying that Neil and Rachel used JC 120's and
>Christian used some sort of Fender (not a twin). Processors include
>Alesis Quadraverb, some Yamaha, as well as alot of pedals as we all
>know.
>
>Does anyone remember Rachel's guitar with the Ren and Stimpy stickers on
>it?
I remember that guitar!!! It was a Fender Tele!
Anyway, with all this talk about guitar effects, I thought I would give my
mailing list a quick plug. I run the "Sound-L" list. It's an unmoderated
mailing list about anything to do with making crazy noise/sounds.
To subscribe, send a message to "listserv@verve.stanford.edu" (no quotes)
In the body of the message: "subscribe sound-l <First Name><Last Name>"
^^^(That's a lower case "L")
Cheers,
-Mitch
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:07:31 -0600 (CST)
From: "Luis B. Abcede" <ST5SD@Jetson.UH.EDU>
Subject: Guitar wankers! Yeah, YOU!
Coincidentally, I've been thinking about picking up a Valve FX or my
alterntaive the RP-12 (w/ the nifty built-in expression pedal). Are there
any significant differences? I've checked out some of the specs (have yet
to play with one), and it seems like they're both the same. The RP-12 is
cheaper tho (don't mind saving a little money), and I wouldn't have to buy a
separate footcontroller.
Any suggestions/opinions?
Luis
--------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:11:17 -0500
From: Mo Holkar / UKG <100745.3625@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Guitars vs keyboards
>the actuall SOUNDS are more "warm" but not pure, actually the
>opposite. synth sounds are pure, guitar signals are more jumbled
Yes, sorry, of course, I meant 'pure' in the musical ethos sense rather
than in the sound sense!
>something id like to try is this: make wonderful guitar
>textures, sample them, but instead of playing the sounds on a sampler's
>keyboard or being sequenced, trigger the sounds with a guitar midi
>controller.
Nice idea! If only I owned the kit to try it out now...
best
Mo
-----------------------------------
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